Octo
Commander
Posts: 240
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Post by Octo on Jun 24, 2011 14:16:16 GMT 1
Ah, it appears you haven't quite understood my problem. Cerberus is rogue now. But it wasn't in 2177, according to Kahoku. Whether that's true or not is irrelevant, that's the information Shepard will have.
So, it was an Alliance operation, as far as he knows. And even though Cerberus has goen rogue from the Alliance, at Akuze the Alliance was thus involved. And that means Shepard would want to get justice (or call it revenge, doesn't matter) from the Alliance as well as from Cerberus.
However, that would of course unacceptably derail the storyline. There's still a turian ex-Spectre to catch, after all. So, that's the problem.
After having thought it over, I see two solutions: 1) Just strike all time references from Kahoku's report. It's unclear just when Cerberus went rogue, so that it can be presumed that Akuze was done by them while already rogue - and if we get to know different, well, that was just the assumption.
2) Alternatively, I don't do so and have Shepard hate the Alliance. Some of his later actions will go directly into the face of the Alliance anyway, so that would be extra justification...
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Post by Warhammer Gorvar on Jun 24, 2011 14:29:34 GMT 1
Well maybe Shepard only hates portions of the Alliance. Lik he's chums with Anderson (as you should be) and Hackett and Joker and all that, but he hates the other admirals who may or may not have contributed to Cerberus before it went rogue.
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Octo
Commander
Posts: 240
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Post by Octo on Jun 24, 2011 14:38:43 GMT 1
You can't divide it up like that. The Alliance is an institution, a legal person. You could very well hate the Alliance as an institution and want to see it brought down while acknowledging that most people working for that institution are fine and dandy.
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Post by Warhammer Gorvar on Jun 24, 2011 15:04:53 GMT 1
Well you can sort of. I mean look at Star Trek's Federation Sector 7, I think it was. Or Babylon 5's Psi-Corp. Both are part of their Terran Alliance of sorts, but are completely the opposite for what the ideals of humanity stand for. The needed black ops their organisations need.
Now it makes compeltely sense if you see Cerberus as a part of the Alliance just as much as N7 is during it's inception, but as time went on it became to hard to handle, espically when the Alliance wants to be best buds with the Citadel. So the Alliance had to let Cerberus go or Cerberus became independant. However because Cerberus still has ties with the Alliance (Jacob was recruited after Elysium) it's plausible those high ranking alliance officials do support Cerberus still, or at least did until 2177.
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Post by jklinders on Jun 24, 2011 15:21:07 GMT 1
Ah, it appears you haven't quite understood my problem. Cerberus is rogue now. But it wasn't in 2177, according to Kahoku. Whether that's true or not is irrelevant, that's the information Shepard will have. So, it was an Alliance operation, as far as he knows. And even though Cerberus has goen rogue from the Alliance, at Akuze the Alliance was thus involved. And that means Shepard would want to get justice (or call it revenge, doesn't matter) from the Alliance as well as from Cerberus. However, that would of course unacceptably derail the storyline. There's still a turian ex-Spectre to catch, after all. So, that's the problem. After having thought it over, I see two solutions: 1) Just strike all time references from Kahoku's report. It's unclear just when Cerberus went rogue, so that it can be presumed that Akuze was done by them while already rogue - and if we get to know different, well, that was just the assumption. 2) Alternatively, I don't do so and have Shepard hate the Alliance. Some of his later actions will go directly into the face of the Alliance anyway, so that would be extra justification... Sorry if it seemed I was not understanding you. Maybe I have only been typing in half thoughts as I am wont to do. It looks as though you are trying as hard as possible to stick to canon. That's fine but with as many writers as ME has, it can be a pest to do that. When you add retconning to the mix it gets that much worse. So let's leave the dialogue untouched as you want to. Option 1 as you put it is an easy way out. Alter the time Kahoku gives Shep and it's all fine and dandy. Before we explore how one reacts to option 2 it's very important to examine how really effing large organizations work, be it business or government or anything. A government or military on the scale we are looking at is not one monolithic entity but hundreds of thousands to millions of people. Blaming the government for your problems is like blaming the weather for your picnic being ruined. The weather is a worldwide thing, not localized. If Cerberus was a part of the Alliance, and it was a top secret black ops, not everyone in the Alliance was aware of it. So casting blame on any one individual within the organization is counterproductive at best, and swatting a fly with an axe at worst. You don't treat cancer by killing the patient and hating all of the Alliance for the existence of Cerberus is analogous to that. Having said the above and your Shepard being the impulsive type he can react pretty violently at the revelations. Perhaps one of the squad can encourage him to cool down or something. But having said the above, do what you need to do to make your story work, you may have to go outside canon more than you want to though.
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Post by Warhammer Gorvar on Jun 24, 2011 15:42:35 GMT 1
To be honest, I dont think Bioware will come in here and kick our ass if we retcon a thing or two.
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Octo
Commander
Posts: 240
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Post by Octo on Jun 24, 2011 18:20:07 GMT 1
No. But that would feel like a cop-out. Changing the formulation of Kahoku's message slightly is one thing, but nothing more. IMO.
And yes, jklinders, the Alliance is large. But as said, it's also an institution and a legal person. They can very well be responsible for lots of things, even while the majority of the people working for them doesn't know so. Likewise, Shepard can hate them without hating the people involved in them. In that case, he'd simply look out as to how to weaken the Alliance as an institution. However, as things are, that would simply derail the plot too much... OTOH, he'll actively sabotage at least one Alliance effort in the course of the story anyway, so there would be a justification for such behaviour.
Oh well. I think I'll still go with the easier variant. There'd simply be too much to change in the other one.
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aldrinshepard
Serviceman 3rd Class
I won't let fear compromise who I am.
Posts: 10
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Post by aldrinshepard on Aug 16, 2011 12:02:24 GMT 1
I typically go for the colonist, war hero background with my main Shepard.
I usually do the colonist background as I like the 'I remember me' quest. I also find it works very well with the war hero background as the reason Shepard worked so hard on Elysium to stop the Batarian-backed slavers is he didn't want to see Elysium go the same way as Mindoir. He didn't want anyone else to face the pain he went through after loosing his home and family to the Batarians.
I generally chose a paragon path though I will occasionally make renegade choices - mostly to show that while my Shepard is a good guy he's human just like everyone else. And as such he can - and sometimes does - loose his temper and isn't above making a renegade choice if it helps him in the long run. A common one I make in ME2 is to kill Cathka with the arc welder so the gunship is easier to deal with later on.
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Post by idiocywizard on Sept 4, 2011 9:50:51 GMT 1
I always go with the Colonist and War hero background. I always felt that that was the best combination. I always go paragon, (I just can't stand being renegade. I always feel so bad and cruel, but this really only happens in Mass Effect for some reason.) although I do occasionally do a renegade action, if I'm kind of pissed off. I'm always a male Shepard. (I play as if it were me in the situation, so naturally I choose my actual gender. Plus, I actually like Mark's voice acting better.)
Also, first time I played, I chose the option "focus on sovereign" which I thought meant "try to save the council but if you absolutely have to, focus on sovereign", but then Joker just turned of the comm link and the human fleet ignored the council. I did feel bad of course, but I felt the same way as SNERGEN said. Later though, I went back and saved the council, if only for good relations in future games.
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Post by Warhammer Gorvar on Sept 4, 2011 17:24:37 GMT 1
Same here, i rather play my own gender, altohugh i enjoy wathcing walkthrough's with female Shepard because i love Jennifer Hale.
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Post by Tillian Panthesis on Sept 4, 2011 18:04:34 GMT 1
I usually go female because it's a habit of mine and due to playing too many male protagonists in my lifetime of gaming. So when usually I have the opportunity to play as female, I'll go for it immediately. Although DA2 made it an exception for me this time.
Anyway, it helps that femShep is being VA by Hale herself.
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Post by jklinders on Sept 6, 2011 10:01:06 GMT 1
You guys do know you get alignment attributes for choosing an origin right? Earthborn - Earn more renegade when picking the option Spacer - Earn more paragon when picking the option Colonist - Earn more points to both paragon and renegade Maybe your origin will determine the outcome of the ME3 ending or not. Pretty sure the origin only has any bearing at all in ME 1. There is no indication at all that origin matters at all to ME 2. Though it would be interesting to see if it has any story based impact on ME 3.
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Octo
Commander
Posts: 240
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Post by Octo on Sept 6, 2011 10:40:12 GMT 1
Actually, IIRC you do not get more renegade or paragon points when picking options, you simply start already with an amount of paragon/renegade points based on both facets of the background. Both in ME 1 and ME 2, I think.
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Post by jklinders on Sept 6, 2011 11:01:01 GMT 1
I had considered that as well but have no way of seeing it as the meters appear empty at game start regardless and I don't know what to look for in the files. I figured that by ME 2 Shepard's personality should be based more on more recent events than his/her childhood but if there is a bonus to the meters there as well, then...bonus.
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Post by Warhammer Gorvar on Sept 6, 2011 11:03:01 GMT 1
It would be awesome to see an Earthborn feel remorse for leaving Earth.
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