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Post by Mister Buch on Jul 12, 2011 14:03:53 GMT 1
If this weren't the internet, we would come to blows over this!
xD
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Post by jklinders on Jul 12, 2011 14:14:00 GMT 1
If this weren't the internet, we would come to blows over this! xD I know he wanted to smack me for dissing Sisko.
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Post by Warhammer Gorvar on Jul 12, 2011 16:28:08 GMT 1
Hell, I can take ya both on! .... Not really, I no doubt would get my butt handed to me. And then probably finnish me since I would've both challenged you to Mortal Kombat.
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Post by Clint Johnston on Jul 12, 2011 19:03:05 GMT 1
*shoots all disputants then lies back in chair while sipping lemonade*
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Post by jklinders on Jul 12, 2011 20:50:46 GMT 1
*gently pats the spot where Clint's shot hit my body armor* Really again? I thought you learned your lesson last time.
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Post by Warhammer Gorvar on Jul 12, 2011 21:44:33 GMT 1
Isn't it odd when i just got shot by ClinTjohnston I got two karma o.o ?
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Post by jklinders on Jul 12, 2011 22:00:10 GMT 1
That's weird, I didn't. Maybe you only get karma the first time he shoots you.
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Post by CAPT Issac R. Madden on Jul 13, 2011 1:03:14 GMT 1
I voted for the Quarians since they've gotten the shit end of the stick from just about everyone. The Krogan have the Genophage, but at least they have a freaking planet to live on.
As for the stereotypes, I have to say it's kind of hard to avoid them. Especially since the races each have their own defined culture. The Turians extremely military oriented, the Salarians are the intel and subterfuge specialists, the Asari are the ones who broker peace, etc. There are some exceptions to the rule, but stereotypes exist because they're true to at least some degree.
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Post by Mr. Glow on Jul 13, 2011 2:03:30 GMT 1
There are some exceptions to the rule, but stereotypes exist because they're true to at least some degree. Or because people want to believe they're true. Ay, there's the rub. But yeah, it would be ludicrous to expect a handful of guys from Canada could create a setting full of races with half the facets and crap a real culture has going on, so what we get instead are stereotypes.
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Post by Mister Buch on Jul 13, 2011 15:28:22 GMT 1
Of course, Canadians are too unimaginitive to do that.
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Post by jklinders on Jul 13, 2011 22:11:04 GMT 1
There are some exceptions to the rule, but stereotypes exist because they're true to at least some degree. Or because people want to believe they're true. Ay, there's the rub. But yeah, it would be ludicrous to expect a handful of guys could create a setting full of races with half the facets and crap a real culture has going on, so what we get instead are stereotypes. There fixed it for ya. And to Buch...
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renegadepoint
Lieutenant
Lets all take a step back from the weird alien impaling devices...
Posts: 188
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Post by renegadepoint on Jul 15, 2011 9:51:55 GMT 1
Uh-huh. That's why that planet in the Bahak system had 3/4 non-batarians. Slaves most likely. They are a slavery-based society through and through, and the I remember me assignment shows just how bad batarian slavery is. So I say, kill'em all. How do you know all Batarians support slavery? We don't know a great deal about their culture. You you can't damn them all because they're are a lot of bad apples. Also many of them could be under the effects of propaganda. True, every one still has to make their own choices. But making the right choice isn't as easy when your leaders and all authority and your peers are telling you its the wrong one. And if all batarians are xenophobic zealots then why did the one who drove your shuttle in the Archangel mission act so polite? True he assumed you were 5 minutes from dieing but he still could have treated you like scum. Probably not the strongest argument but I truly think/hope they show the other side of batarian culture in Mass Effect 3. And I'll defend the handful of innocents until proven wrong. So the genocide of the geth was ok. And so is genocide of batarians. But genocide of a race that's basically just emerged, has no culture and very little understanding of anything, is justified? The attempted genocide of the quarians was a reflex reaction. All the geth knew was the quarians wanted to kill them. And in the short time they had to react they decided to fight back. With their neural network its likely they didn't realize they were winning until after most of the quarians fled or were killed. Even then they had no experience to know that it was time to stop the offensive. Or maybe they just assumed they would get help, come back, and try again. Its difficult to know for sure how the geth made their decision. The only thing we do know is that it was sparked by self preservation. Instead of choosing to die passively they chose to fight back. This is something we all can relate to and understand. And something the geth were discovering for the first time. Its not really fair to judge the geth based solely on what they did in response to the quarians actions. Nearly extincting the quarians wasn't a decision any other species (save for a few) would have made but the geth lacked the social, political, and military knowledge required to make an educated decision. That whole situation isn't very detailed in the game's lore but from what I've put together neither side made very good choices. Which, to me, is enough common ground to open a line of communication. Or at least try. Also, I could be wrong, but I think the ME1 codex mentioned something about the occasional geth ship spotted outside the veil. I also think it said they attacked merchant ships and stuff but remember, the victors get to write the history books. For all we know they wanted to contact some one and tell their side of the story. Though I'm not going to get too deep into that since I can't remember if that's true. Part of what I like about Mass Effect is there are no clearly defined good guys or bad guys. Except the reapers, who could be farming the milky way to save millions of races in multiple galaxies for all we know. In that respect the story of Mass Effect is very realistic. Its hard to judge an entire species based on the actions of the majority. Or their history. Also I'm not trying to flame or troll. I just find this an interesting topic for debate. The only reason I brought any of this up is because the Mass Effect universe is so rich that I apply real world logic to it to try to fill in the blanks. If I wanted a 'Red vs Blue' or 'Good vs Evil' storyline I'd play something else. This game's story has such depth that you wonder what brought each enemy, ally, and NPC before you. I could be wrong. And that's fine. But I see no reason to think that the geth or batarians are that one dimensional.
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Post by Warhammer Gorvar on Jul 15, 2011 10:50:34 GMT 1
Agreed. Legion is actually the only 'real' Geth we could talk to and understand how the Geth think. I read an X-men story where one of the Sentinels that destroyed Genosha (and killing thousands of mutants) became self aware after it was re-activated by an enemy of the X-men. Kitty Pryde phased into it to stop it from killing her team-mates and activated the memory cycle of the deaths of the thousands it killed.
The Sentinel stopped the attack and simply flew away because it could not compute how many lives it took.
That's what I get from the Geth, they fled to the Perseus Veil because they had to compute the errors they made. A reboot as it is.
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Octo
Commander
Posts: 240
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Post by Octo on Jul 15, 2011 14:04:23 GMT 1
There is no "attempted" in genocide when you kill 99.99% of the population. It's genocide, period. Yes, the quarians were planning a genocide, too - but the operative word here is planning. Or trying. It were the geth, though, who actually committed one. They killed billions of quarians - you can't tell me that has anything to do with defence any more. In fact, Legion itself says so, that this day geth understand those actions had not been necessary. Killing 99.99% of a race cannot, can never be said to be just defence, that's ridicolous!
And I'm sure not all batarians are xenophobic zealots, but it is clear their society, the entire Batarian Hegemony, is based on slavery. I didn't literally mean to wipe them all out, but damnit, the Alliance should have declared war after Mindoir!
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Post by Mr. Glow on Jul 15, 2011 15:32:16 GMT 1
And I'm sure not all batarians are xenophobic zealots, but it is clear their society, the entire Batarian Hegemony, is based on slavery. I didn't literally mean to wipe them all out, but damnit, the Alliance should have declared war after Mindoir! Then the Alliance should have gone after the other slaver race, once they were done with the batarians.
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