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Post by Mister Buch on Jul 11, 2011 17:04:06 GMT 1
Ah well ME cannot be prone to that pattern, since it introduced all races save the drell and vog, simultaneously in great numbers.
And yet despite that every asari is a sexual object to some extent, every salarian is nerdy and somewhat flustered / stuttery, every turian is forceful and a bit pissed off about something, etc.
And even the drell, once they had a third member in Liara's mate from the DLC, suffered from typecasting. They add the first drell who is neither Thane nor tied-into Thane's story, and he's a skilled, calm infiltrator.
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I'd say species stereotyping is just something that happens in SF. It is fiction after all - these 'alien' races must serve a purpose and in some way relate to the protagonist's group. No professional author (i.e. author with a deadline) can go around perfectly recreating the nuances of different civilisations co-existing and reflect it all within a story that isn't really about that.
And then again - surely there would be general trends in personality of sentient species, as observed by outsiders? Surely, unnecesary prejudice aside, there are distinct patterns between nationalities here on Earth? It's concievable that the asari would come across as overly sexed to an outside species with a different environment and history -- but it's also a little cliched and, you know, just once I'd like the all-female race to have no particular standard of beauty in comparison to others. And be physically capable without relying on intelligence, magic or influence. There is sexism in the way asari represent women, but it's not so offensive. I've seen much, much, much worse in SF.
I think Mass Effect does do a pretty good job of justifying the species traits with evolutionary and biological reasons, too... except the krogan who are just silly.
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Post by Tillian Panthesis on Jul 11, 2011 17:07:37 GMT 1
Even the krogan have a plausable reason why they are like that... according to Mordin. A slight plausable reason, empathsis on the word slight.
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Post by Warhammer Gorvar on Jul 11, 2011 17:29:10 GMT 1
Anyone else played Battletoads? I keep thinking of that game when I see Krogan nowadays.
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Post by jklinders on Jul 11, 2011 17:45:40 GMT 1
Stereotyping is completely unavoidable when creating new races I would expect. We simply do not have a separate cultural context to put these races into. While diversity may be implied on the whole the stereotyping would hold otherwise it becomes difficult to distinguish one race from another in universe.
For how they were originally designed (blue babes in space according to the devs) the Asari are nicely diverse and believable. They are socially, culturally and politically the most powerful race in the galaxy. they are so good at making nice with others that I doubt either of the other council races would survive aggression against them long. While numerically speaking they have a small military it is likely the most deadly on a one on one basis. Even the Turians admit that. It's not just due to space magic either though it definitely has a role. It has to do with the freedom to spend decades training in combat disciplines without sacrificing your entire life to it.
As for all the Asari strippers...typecasting or decades long "wild years" for the sheer enjoyment of doing whatever you want while still staying young. Take your pick.
by comparison nearly all the other races are pretty one note. Scheming, nerdy Salarians, Roman like militaristic Turians with way too itchy trigger fingers, Don't even get me started on the bad jewish stereotype the Volus represent (with no deviance at all no less). The Hanar and Elcor are not just stereotyped, they are utterly irredeemable from their stereotypes. They are species that exist to be the buts of jokes. Full stop.
The Asari are beacons of diversity and fair treatment in comparison to all of the others.
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Post by Warhammer Gorvar on Jul 11, 2011 18:08:20 GMT 1
I dunno, I thought the Hanar were more like holy men for preaching their religon and saving the drell.
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Post by jklinders on Jul 11, 2011 18:26:47 GMT 1
Heh, so they were not given that manner of speech purely for reasons of providing fodder for jokes? 'sides there was only one Hanar that was preaching about the Enkindlers. And saving the Drell only to use them for wetwork was not exactly an altruistic thing to do. Let's not forget Blasto which is even lampshaded in the game as a way to further treat them as a joke.
Going back to the Elcor. I have one quote in mind that sets up their role in this universe perfectly.
"With barely contained terror: you drive a hard bargain human." They are the Eyore's of Mass Effect, and they sound sarcastic even when they are completely straight laced. Instant mem generators.
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Octo
Commander
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Post by Octo on Jul 11, 2011 20:31:36 GMT 1
I thought the entire point of ME races was playing with the concept of racial hats. All asari are very skilled at people's skill - and the asari we get on the team is very shy and socially awkward. All krogan are violent and short-tempered - but the one on board actually has foresight and insight. Plus that one extremely polite krogan in ME 2. All turians are about order and rules - but the one we get turns out to have a bit of a problem with rules. And so on...
For that matter, ME plays with that even on the level of entire races. The asari are the Green Skinned Space Babes - but they are also the richest, most respected and most influential race in the galaxy. Despite them working as 'dancers' or hookers or whatever. Likewise, turian society is that extremely militarist, duty-bound society - but they are not actually a clichee warrior race, and are actually very social liberal, which doesn't usually fit to the cliché of militarist people.
So I don't think ME is bad in stereotyping. Sure, different races have different characteristics, but isn't that to be expected? Yet every individual does remain an individual, and even the race-level clichés are broken in some instances.
It's a combination of two things, I think: 1) Asari are efficient. Every race finds them attractive. So bars can just hire an asari dancer, instead of having to hire a turian, a human, a hanar, etc. 2) Asari simply have few hang-ups about those things. I think for them it's just a job like any other, and one in which they are in high demand.
And yes, volus, elcor and partly the hanar are kinda all comic relief races, aren't they? However, the reason we see no deviances from that is, I think, that there are not many named characters for any of them.
Saving the drell, and enslaving them. And using some as child soldiers.
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Post by jklinders on Jul 11, 2011 21:03:14 GMT 1
I had not really thought of how the aliens in the crew really bucked the trends in their races. No exceptions yet either. Even Grunt has a tendency to think things through and he should have been the most stereotypical of all stereotypical Krogan.
I must have misunderstood the Turian culture, as their strict caste system never really struck me as liberal. They are solely merit based which is not liberal but more objectivist. I can see it working with them simply because they are entirely too honest for it not to, but I would not describe them as anything close to liberal.
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Octo
Commander
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Post by Octo on Jul 11, 2011 21:11:08 GMT 1
Tali is actually kinda cliché, at least in ME 1. Quarian and engineering, that does go hand in hand. And Grunt would be kinda stereotype, if it wasn't for the fact that he so to say still has to discover the world. In ME 2, Mordin is kinda stereotype, too, the salarian crazy scientist. OTOH, Samara is unlike any other asari we've met before, and even defies the Space Paladin cliche when she... interpretes the code to do good. And Legion of course totally defied expectations of geth, too.
As for turian society, caste is I think the wrong word, since it is merit based. Batarians have castes, turians have citizenship ranks. Still of course so far that sounds militarist and even a bit fascistoid - but thing is, as long as you don't harm others and do the duties of your citizenship rank, other turians won`t care what you do. Drugs, sexual practices, whatever, as long as you still do your duty that's solely your thing. So, I think a FemShep/Garrus couple will get much, much more trouble from human than from turian side...
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Post by jklinders on Jul 11, 2011 21:36:19 GMT 1
I had forgotten that about Turians. My internet has bee a morsel unreliable the last couple of days so I could not easily look the codex up. I only agree with you on Mordin to a point. A final defining characteristic about Salarians which he is missing in it's entirety is an obsession with breeding. He just doesn't give a shit either way from what I have seen.
Tali was very typical of Quarians in ME 1 but like all good characters she changed. This is a good thing.
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Post by Warhammer Gorvar on Jul 11, 2011 23:39:46 GMT 1
Small question, who else thought Mordin reminded you of Doctor Who? The 11th one, Matt Smith.
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Post by Mister Buch on Jul 12, 2011 3:41:32 GMT 1
Matt Smith is nothing to Mordin. Mordin's my favourite party member in ME2. Matt Smith my be by my least favourite in every category of people.
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renegadepoint
Lieutenant
Lets all take a step back from the weird alien impaling devices...
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Post by renegadepoint on Jul 12, 2011 6:36:55 GMT 1
I forgot to mention the batarians. Does anyone care about the batarians? A little. Batarians, to me, represent arabs. Every one thinks they're all terrorists but that's just not true. There are plenty who just want to live their lives peacefully. But because of 'current events' and a corrupt government the whole world/galaxy thinks they're all just war mongering psychopaths. I voted for the geth because in our brief time with Legion we learned a great deal about the geth. Namely that they're splintered into two groups. The AI supremacists and the 'normal' geth who just want to learn. Where as krogan and batarians are allowed access to the CItadel, geth are shot on sight simply for being AI. Yet they hold no grudge toward organic life for that. I have a lot of respect for the geth. They seem desperate to find their place in the galaxy. Going so far as to risk their 'lives' to study organic life in order to better find a peaceful resolution. Yet no Citadel species even considers the possibility of diplomatic relations with the geth. The main argument against the geth is that they chased the quarians of their homeworld. But its the geth homeworld too. And they only fought the quarians to prevent their own extinction. I think the geth could easily be convinced to let the quarians settle back on their homeworld. But the quarians have never asked. The geth seem to realize that being non-organic they'll always be seen as 'different'. But I think they simply want the same level of respect as organic civilizations. And they are willing to wait patiently until organic civilizations are ready to give them that respect. Also, if the Cidadel was really that worried about the quarians they'd allow them to occupy a habitable world. Quarians are sort of between a rock and a hard place. I feel bad for them but they're apparently not smart or despite enough to consider a peaceful solution with the geth. I know it was talked about in ME2, but why did it take them 300+ years to explore that option? To please the Council? The council abandoned them. They're on their own. That should have been apparent when the first signs or their species immune system was decaying were discovered. As for humans, we got the respect we have in the council because the council know war with humans would result in massive loss of life. Krogans would be more then willing to team up with humans for one last shot at revenge. And all the other threats to the citadel would have converged after their forces were weakened. It would have been all-out galactic war. Now that we're part of the council they can attempt to control us. Elcor, hanar, & volus have very little of what you want from an ally. They're allowed on the citadel because they're peaceful. But they'll never be in the council unless they flex some military muscle. Also I'd be willing to sympathize with the reapers if they were willing to express what it is they want. But they just come in and kill everything and act all high and awesome. So 'ef the reapers.
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Octo
Commander
Posts: 240
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Post by Octo on Jul 12, 2011 11:10:32 GMT 1
Uh-huh. That's why that planet in the Bahak system had 3/4 non-batarians. Slaves most likely. They are a slavery-based society through and through, and the I remember me assignment shows just how bad batarian slavery is. So I say, kill'em all.
Uh, before the geth(-heretic) attacks the geth didn't venture forth from the Veil for 300 years.
17m people. That's all that remained of the quarians. The geth applied a "kill'em all policy". That has nothing to do with self-defence any more. That was wholesale genocide.
Aside from the afore mentioned fact that the geth isolated themselves - they killed 99.9% of the quarian population. Would you ask such butchers? Would you think it likely they are peaceful? Really? Be realistic...
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Post by Warhammer Gorvar on Jul 12, 2011 11:27:24 GMT 1
Matt Smith is nothing to Mordin. Mordin's my favourite party member in ME2. Matt Smith my be by my least favourite in every category of people. We're not getting along anymore, are we Buch?
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