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Post by Clint Johnston on Mar 26, 2013 4:07:34 GMT 1
I shouldn't have been so direct in my commentary on the news post. The issue I meant to bring up was that the NRA was robocalling in the area of a school shooting asking people to support gun rights. How stupid! Would you set up a robocall supporting animal rights in an area that had just seen a rash of animal attacks? The liberal side of the debate has overstepped its bounds too, I'm not denying that. I'm just saying they could have spent a little more time thinking about how best to support their case.
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Post by Clint Johnston on May 11, 2013 17:28:30 GMT 1
news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/sandy-hook-elementary-school-future-131117994.htmlI think this is totally the wrong decision. Had the school been damaged in a bombing of some sort, I might agree, but to take millions of taxpayer dollars to demolish and rebuild a perfectly good facility (on the same ground) to assuage some emotional pain is just dumb. It'd be like cancelling the Boston Marathon because something happened there or never showing a movie at that theatre in aurora because that's where the shooting happened.
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Post by Lily Ariel Linders on May 11, 2013 17:55:43 GMT 1
news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/sandy-hook-elementary-school-future-131117994.htmlI think this is totally the wrong decision. Had the school been damaged in a bombing of some sort, I might agree, but to take millions of taxpayer dollars to demolish and rebuild a perfectly good facility (on the same ground) to assuage some emotional pain is just dumb. It'd be like cancelling the Boston Marathon because something happened there or never showing a movie at that theatre in aurora because that's where the shooting happened. Seriously? You think young children, 5 and 6 years old, would be okay walking through the halls where their classmates were murdered? And the teachers who survived that day as well? You don't think that would be emotionally painful to them? Oh wait - you did actually acknowledge that there would be emotional pain - you just don't think it matters. You think it's "just dumb". As for the comment about "millions of taxpayer dollars", well, I think that rather callous comment just proves that money is this world's curse when the emotional well-being of the children and teachers who survived that hell takes second place to saving a bit of money. This world disgusts me sometimes. As for my opinion on the possibility of rebuilding, in case it wasn't obvious - I agree that rebuilding might be a good idea. I can see them demolishing the old building, and rebuilding in a new design with a new floor-plan so that the occupants of the school would not be walking the same paths they ran in terror on the day when they saw the brutal murders of 26 innocent people. To me, that makes perfect sense.
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Post by A Normal Pathfinder on May 11, 2013 18:07:20 GMT 1
I agree Those classrooms where red with blood from the wounded and dying and they're worried about money? That school should be torn down
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Post by Lily Ariel Linders on May 11, 2013 18:31:44 GMT 1
I agree Those classrooms where red with blood from the wounded and dying and they're worried about money? That school should be torn down Thank you - that is another very good point.
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Post by A Normal Pathfinder on May 11, 2013 18:52:55 GMT 1
Your welcome
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Post by Clint Johnston on May 11, 2013 19:00:30 GMT 1
I thought this might be a hot button issue for you, Lily. But I stand by what I said. It's not worth 50 MILLION taxpayer dollars (and that doesn't count the expense to demolish the old one) to rebuild that school.
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Post by Lily Ariel Linders on May 11, 2013 19:16:29 GMT 1
Well, how much of a waste would it be to have an abandoned building there then? Because I honestly can't see them repopulating that same building... too many bad memories. Maybe you don't have the same type of emotional range as everyone else - maybe you'd be able to sit in the same classroom and calmly take lessons in the same room where you witnessed your friends being brutally murdered... but normal people most likely can't.
And one more thing. Labelling this as simply a "hot button issue" makes it sound like you think I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing. Because, as you've made clear in other posts in other threads before, I am obviously being overly emotional and charging around like a bull (by the way, in case your inability to recognise written sarcasm rears its unobservant head again, that was extreme sarcasm)... but I assure you, Clint, that is not the case.
And I will not argue this with you anymore, because my intent was not to argue with you. I was simply stating an opinion. And making clear just how callous and uncaring your post sounded.
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Post by A Normal Pathfinder on May 11, 2013 19:19:01 GMT 1
Yep no flame war
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Post by Lily Ariel Linders on May 11, 2013 19:22:31 GMT 1
Not starting a flame war here. As I have made perfectly clear, I am done discussing this. Because apparently making my opinions known is not appreciated.
I would not have responded at all to begin with, because I knew it was going to look like I was just disagreeing with Clint again. Funny how I do disagree with 99.999 ad infinitum percent of what he says...
But I also realise that I will not allow my aversion to arguments to prevent me from actually posting on the forum of which I am a member. I would like to think that my opinions matter as much as anyone else's... and if he's allowed to indicate uncaring towards the emotional effects of children witnessing murder, then I should be allowed to point out just how cold that is.
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Post by Clint Johnston on May 11, 2013 20:33:02 GMT 1
Lily, I bring these things up because I find them interesting and want to talk about them. You seem to find the fact that my opinion differs from yours a grave offense. I don't share that mode of thought and if you want to join in the discussion of the idea you are welcome.
Actually, your thoughts and Normal Turian's were appreciated. I still say the school shouldn't be torn down, but would a renovation work? I mean, they already intend to use the same site for the "new" school. Why not save tens of millions and work from the inside out?
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Post by Lily Ariel Linders on May 11, 2013 20:51:46 GMT 1
I don't find the fact that your opinion is different a grave offense; as I've stated before, everyone is entitled to their own opinon.
What I find so offensive is the implication that people's emotions are "just dumb". Using your words there, by the way.
Renovating... rebuilding... what's the difference, as long as the inside is not the same and therefore not a constant visual reminder of the murders.
What I find offensive are statements like "I stand by what I said" - as if yours is the only valid opinion.
You also were not suggesting a renovation in your first comment; you seemed to think that leaving everything as it is was sufficient as long as the blood was cleaned up.
Your cold-hearted comment about "to assuage some emotional pain is just dumb" was highly offensive because it seemed to insinuate that people are dumb for having an emotional reaction to a traumatic experience. That these children might be "dumb" for possibly suffering from PTSD. And that train of thought is absolutely ridiculous.
Human beings are not emotionless robots. We cannot simply turn off feelings like that. You might be able to, but... most people can't.
Out of curiousity, when you were a student in school as a child, if you had seen your classmates die horribly, would you be able to attend classes in classrooms that looked exactly the same as they did on the day of the murders? I know I wouldn't... and to be honest, I'd want the school to not only be rebuilt, but also relocated before I could handle stepping foot in there again.
I just think you need to think about what normal people might be feeling before saying things like that. Tact was needed there.
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Post by jklinders on May 11, 2013 21:31:12 GMT 1
My brain is a little fuzzy right now as my vertigo has kinda overpowered me today. Starting with I really don't think anyone was bringing this up to be contentious. I do think that maybe, some of the wording might have been a little on the terse side, imma gonna chalk that up to the silliness that results from communicating in print over actually speaking. For the record, I'm in favor of a an extensive renovation over a total site destruction and option that would still cost millions. What would be far better would be a working mental health system but that will never happen because mental illness is not something that you can actually see.
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Post by Clint Johnston on May 11, 2013 21:37:13 GMT 1
What I find so offensive is the implication that people's emotions are "just dumb". Using your words there, by the way. No. What I said was that to spend 50,000,000+ taxpayer dollars because of those emotions was dumb. Good! We agree. In my first post, I hadn't even considered the possibility of renovation, but one of you two's comments about the same hallways made me think that this might be a fair compromise. No. It simply means that I think the same as before. Nothing in "I stand by what I said" implies any falseness in what you said. How is this a fair statement from someone who doesn't find other people's opinions offensive? The last sentence is an attack against my character and really not applicable to the discussion. Well I was homeschooled (and before you laugh, remember that I have a Master's degree...) so the hypothetical is inapplicable. Not to mention that one is impossible to estimate, too many variables. I respect that you feel this way though. Again with personal aspersions. Think about where we are. Normalcy left the building a long time ago. Were any of us directly involved with it, then yes, tact would be an issue. All I did was bring up a outside political / social issue and offer my opinion on it, no more than what all of us do quite often on here. I'm not trying to fight with you, Lily. I value your opinions on issues like these. But please stop talking like I'm some sort of heartless monster for having my own thoughts. It's so unnecessary and only ratchets up the tension.
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Post by Lily Ariel Linders on May 11, 2013 21:43:11 GMT 1
Fine. No problem. As I stated before, quite a few posts ago, I was simply stating my opinion.
Also, out of curiousity, why would you automatically assume I would laugh about you being homeschooled? Is that not also... oh what did you call it... "personal aspersions"? Seems a mite hypocritical of you to get on my case for supposedly "attacking your character" and then do the same to me.
Anyway, I really am done with this. I'm leaving this thread alone now.
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