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Post by Mister Buch on Dec 19, 2012 17:35:06 GMT 1
We aren't understanding each other here. Could we please not debate the merits and fears / drawbacks of anti-depressants on the thread about the mass murder?
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Post by jklinders on Dec 19, 2012 17:50:17 GMT 1
Fair enough.
Most medications are dangerous though. they would be available without a prescription otherwise were that not the case.
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Post by CAPT Issac R. Madden on Dec 19, 2012 17:56:45 GMT 1
We aren't understanding each other here. Could we please not debate the merits and fears / drawbacks of anti-depressants on the thread about the mass murder? Even though the antidrepressants may be the bloody fucking trigger for the events? Some facts about the US: until 1968, you could mail-order a gun and have it sent to your house directly. After 68, it had to be sent to a licensed gun dealer. The deadliest mass-murder in New York City before 9/11 was committed with half a gallon of petrol and two matches (87 people dead). Should we now ban petrol? And before you yell at me and linders, this is straight from the warning label on Prozac The ONLY difference between suicide and homicide is the target. And it wasn't until pretty recently that psychotropic drugs replaced actual therapy for those with psychological issues. As I said earlier: these mass shooters all had psychological issues before they killed people and I also made the connection between the Reavers in Firefly and the possible side effect of drugs on these people in real life. Finally, the UK's gun laws didn't stop the Cumbria shootings in 2010 did they? Nor did Norway's laws stop that particular massacre. The problem isn't guns, it's people. Sorry to come across as a dick, but you're coming across as one who is allowing opinion to overlook fact.
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Post by Clint Johnston on Dec 19, 2012 19:18:43 GMT 1
Iron, it does not matter what someone else comes across as. It matters how you react to it. Right now, in fact throughout this whole thread, your reactions have not been measured or thought out. You have been highly emotional and agitated. We aren't judging you for having an opinion (one I agree with, some of the time), but for the way you're stating that opinion, aggressively and repetitively.
How is the memory of these little kids served by our bickering here? It doesn't matter if Buch told you to F off, (which he didn't, though he often disagrees with you) you need to be fair and polite. More importantly, twice in this thread, Buch has offered a truce and said he really doesn't want to fight it out, but you've thought your points more important and stoked the fire again.
Let. It. Go. There will be other times to deal with it. Our decisions on here will not prevent another attack, but they may very well dissolve valuable friendships. [/soapbox]
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Post by Mister Buch on Dec 19, 2012 23:22:12 GMT 1
Smeg. Thanks, Clint. That's what I would have said if I were smarter.
Iron, JK, if Im coming across as ill-informed, that's not the case - not this time at least. When it comes to psychology and depression I know a few things. I just don't want to argue again, and especially on this thread.
Iron - as always, completely disagree. We should just not argue.
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Post by Warhammer Gorvar on Dec 20, 2012 0:00:53 GMT 1
I still want to see Buch and Iron enter in Mortal Kombat.
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Post by herrwozzeck on Dec 20, 2012 3:18:24 GMT 1
Well... that wouldn't end well, Gorvar, it wouldn't. Yeah... I've been pretty silent on this issue, 'cause I don't really want to get into a huge argument. Basically, I'm just gonna say that I don't believe any sane man would willingly do such a thing as shoot twenty children in cold blood. (Seriously, what kind of mind do you have to have to think that it would be all right to kill children? That's just fucked up, if you'll pardon my vernacular.) So personally, the only place I draw a line on the control/non-control debate is "make a psych evaluation mandatory to purchase firearms", and then I'll pretty much go with the flow. That said, I'm going to add something that's not about this specific shooting but is slightly on the same topic here, because a school shooting at a university was narrowly averted in Massachusetts earlier this week. I think we can all take comfort in the fact that another shooting tragedy at a school was averted, especially after this tragedy.
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Post by Lily Ariel Linders on Dec 20, 2012 4:05:43 GMT 1
Okay... this just broke my heart... poor little guy... I really hope these poor children who survived that day don't suffer from too many horrible nightmares for too long... it's too naive to think they'll not have any nightmares, but hopefully they can recover quickly. And I feel so sad for the little ones who lost their friends and now have to cope with that loss...
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Post by jklinders on Dec 20, 2012 15:24:00 GMT 1
Another tidbit. The mother was not unaware that the shooter had problems. She was trying to get him committed. ca.news.yahoo.com/sandy-hook-shooting-adam-lanza-lashing-against-treatment-231300962.htmlThe article cites the controversy over involuntary commitment. It also cites that Connecticut has some of the tougher rules regarding it. There is also some talk that the mental health care system in general totally failed in this case. In light of this I am forced to go back to the issue of how well secured those firearms were in the house since she knew her son was troubled. I would have had them locked down tight if someone in my household was unstable.
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Post by Clint Johnston on Dec 20, 2012 21:59:32 GMT 1
Unless they were your planned means of protection...
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Post by spiritwolf71 on Dec 20, 2012 23:12:57 GMT 1
By the looks of it the Mental Health system is the same in most places, the 72 hour assessment is in Canada as well. I can just tell you I can't count how many parents I have come across in my jobs who can no longer control their kids and have no help in finding a way to get help for it. Getting anyone committed, especially kids is extremely hard. Read that mothers letter someone posted once. I have dealt with kids that are suffering from mental illness and can get extremely violent. BUt the problem is they are giving some meds and sent home to parent who are unable to control them, which is not always the parents fault.
What do we do with kids, or people like that. In Canada I can tell you it's pretty much nothing. I have seen one mental institution that allows involuntary patients a day pass if they can pay for it, I have seen the same place let killers disappear on a regular basis. Now I haven't worked down town for 10 years so I can not coment if they have improved any.
I am tired of people asking what to do with their loved ones that are suffering from Mental Illness because I can not give them a solution because there are none. Society has decided that everyone has free will so it's hard to get people locked up even if its for their own safety or societies safety. Not only that but in Canada if a Mental Patient does not want to take his drug, they do not have to.
So the question is, how do we fix it, where do we draw the lines. One would have to hope that there is some way to handle these people, but I just can't see it happening anytime soon, no matter how many tragedies we have.
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Post by Cali on Dec 21, 2012 3:43:17 GMT 1
We know you are, Iron. Also, I dunno if it's some sort of weird sixth sense or something, but I immediately kind of felt suspicious about the whole Morgan Freeman quote. Cali, that's far from my point. My point is that these otherwise "peaceful" people are calling for the deaths of those of us who legally own guns even though we had little if anything to do with the killings. My latest counter to the "ban guns because of a small group of assholes" bit is that I'll agree once the Bible and Koran get the same treatment. After all, religious nuts kill more people than random whack jobs with semi automatic carbines. I wasn't trying to miss the point as much as I was trying to cop out of it, I'll admit. Sorry. I've pretty much said all I wanted to say in this issue from the first post. I'm just tired off all the violence for the sake of violence. I'm not sure if there's anything I can say to remedy all of this, and there won't be. If I do take action to improve anything related to this (Donations, political action, etc) I won't be putting it here. I'm sorry, but when folks on this forum talk politics and religion, it's pretty much the way I expected: Nobody can be convinced about anything, and they want to believe what they wanna believe. I think we should just stick to talking about the entertainment industry/video games, just like it was kinda intended.
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Post by jklinders on Dec 21, 2012 12:49:50 GMT 1
Now it's blame the victim time it seems. www.nationalreview.com/articles/335996/newtown-answers-nro-symposium#Factual errors aside (there were men working there) this bitch seems to think that if there was only a couple of men or even some 11 or 12 year old boys who were not "sissified" by the "all female" school system, someone could have have taken the shooter down. What I want to do to this -insert unprintable word here- cannot be typed on this site. This is the worst kind of Monday morning quarterbacking filled with factual errors to boot. Now I am going to get my coffee like I should have done before reading this op-ed.
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Post by Battlechantress on Dec 21, 2012 19:59:07 GMT 1
Yeah, I'm kind of wondering why we even have these threads. None have ended well.
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Post by Clint Johnston on Dec 21, 2012 20:13:43 GMT 1
Well if you don't discuss things with people who disagree with you, you never learn anything.
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