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Post by lieden on Apr 7, 2013 7:43:46 GMT 1
After a rather long break... I already knew about, well, the big spoiler in the game, but still the revelation on Leviathan had an impact. Went to Manaan for the final Star map after that. I would say it's boring, but frequent talks with Jolee saved it. Did I say Jolee is the best? Well, I do again! I had trouble deciding what to do with his friend's trial once I found out he did murder the Sith woman. Made sure he come out 'innocent', though. You know, for the good of the Republic and all that. Got my character tangled in a romance with Carth. It's reasonably tame. Phew. On the uncharted world, I confronted Bastila. I think the cut scenes before that with her and Malak were rather poor; well, anything with Malak involved is rather lacklustre - after all, he IS a cackling villain. There is nothing that annoys me in a story more than cackling villains. Totally ruining it. Also, Bastila's claims about the dark side were extremely silly. Ugh. This is perhaps a good point to say that, although Star Wars is fun, I could never take it seriously because of the whole dichotomy of Light Side vs Dark Side. It keeps everything - from the setting to the characters - to a somewhat juvenile level. And I think that is why Jolee stands out as the most 'real' character among them all: because he doesn't take this distinction very seriously. He has his own moral compass, with a strong 'do no harm' basis, but it's obvious he thinks both the Jedi and the Sith are at least a bit foolish - except the Sith are dangerous fools. At any rate, I think I'm close to the finale: right now I'm arse-deep in Sith apprentices and grenadiers inside the Star Forge. D:
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Post by Mr. Glow on Apr 7, 2013 9:37:46 GMT 1
Just wait until you play KotOR II. Most party members are more neutral (even if the little in-game meter says otherwise). You also get Kreia, who's really neither a Jedi or a Sith. If you were to make a list of the most well-written characters in video games,she'd be pretty damn high up there.
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Post by Mister Buch on Apr 7, 2013 14:44:43 GMT 1
I'm not sure about that. Kreia (and Atton) have great dialogue in places, but no arc. I barely understand who Kreia is, where she came from and what her goals were - that's not the sign of a good character. That applies to all of them. What on Earth was Darth Sion's deal. During the final duel I had no clue what he was trying to tell me. The characters in KotOR 1 have a purpose in a story. Eh, maybe that's just me - I don't like KotOR 2 very much. The game is rushed, takes itself more seriously than it deserves, its plot negates various important things about the previous game which annoys me, it's incomprehensible at times and it full-on has no ending. Not 'has a bad ending' - has no ending at all. I like that they tried to assume a different tone an be very dark and psychological, but I'm not sure it worked and it never feels like 'Star Wars' to me. I think a Star Wars game should capture the tone of Star Wars, which the first one does. (A little too much admittedly! The Ebon HAWK is ridiculously similar to the Millennium Falcon, and Dark Malak is a cackling villain in the most literal sense - in that almost every line he speaks involves cackling. xD ) Eh, that's the old KotOR 2 debate. I think that game gets a lot more respect than it deserves. It's smug and it has no ending. What I say about Kreia (and Atton and Mira) is that they have great dialogue in places and their voice actors are astounding.
Lieden if you play that one I'd be very interested in your opinions!
I am immensely glad you like Jolee! Did you get to his final conversation - the story about the boy and the snake?
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Post by lieden on Apr 7, 2013 15:08:31 GMT 1
I expect I will play KotOR 2 too - so I'll let you know what I think! Less cackling villains sound like a good thing to me. Don't know about getting dark and psychological - I don't think the setting itself could support it that well.
I got that - the story with the boy and the snake! That was seriously one of the best parables EVER. But now I'm sad I'm not getting another conversation with Jolee.
Is he in KoTOR 2 as well?
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Post by Mister Buch on Apr 7, 2013 15:27:11 GMT 1
Ahhh you got the boy and the snake! My favourite bit in the game. You deserve a high five! "Am I supposed to be the snake?" / "Well, that's what I came to find out."
No he's not in KotOR 2, sadly. Two of your party members will be available, and two others make cameos, but sadly Jolee is nowhere to be seen. And I think the game might surprise you with how well it handles the dark, serious, (pompous) psychological tone. I have to admit it does that very well.
The one to look out for next time is the 'Playing pazaak in your head' scene. Best scene.
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Post by jklinders on Apr 7, 2013 18:50:20 GMT 1
I liked KoTOR II but in different ways. I like what was added in gameplay but the characters were a little lacking. Most of the characters felt hollow to me and I think it was the lack of story arc that Buch mentioned. The Exile is to me a far more interesting person than Revan. I especially liked how the Exile does not have amnesia but as the player you have no idea what his/her backstory is. So you are finding out in bits in pieces through dialogue with other characters who your own character is. I found that to be a pretty clever piece of writing.
The dark tone does not fit Star Wars at all. But it is very much worth a play.
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Post by lieden on Apr 7, 2013 20:03:28 GMT 1
Buch: Ah, that's a pity. I just loved Jolee! Linders: Yeah, SW is quite a light-hearted franchise. Probably part of why people like it so much. And... it's done. Saved the Galaxy, got a medal, etc. There was a lot of running about in the final battle with Malak, by the way. He dealt a lot of damage. :} All in all, a good game! I'm glad I got round to playing it. 'Achoo papanki!' and 'kipona! Bona na kichu' have slipped into my home vocabulary, for added ridiculousness. I consider that an important cultural contribution. XD I'll definitely give KotOR 2 a try, too, eventually. Probably after I come back from Japan as I want to focus on some commissions right now. Oh, and mind you: I know absolutely NOTHING about who is who in KotOR 2, so no spoilers, please!
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Post by Clint Johnston on Apr 7, 2013 20:17:09 GMT 1
Make sure you get the patch to restore the cut content (because it was rushed)
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Post by Mr. Glow on Apr 7, 2013 20:23:58 GMT 1
I think it's actually a really good deconstruction of Star Wars in general. You get to see what realistically happens to the galaxy, the Republic and the Jedi after Revan supposedly saves the day for the forces of good forever at the end. And they way it portrays most Jedi as hypocritical, dogmatic and relying too much on the Force is actually pretty valid if you stop and think about it.
I played Planescape: Torment for the first time recently, and it was telling how much that must've influenced KotOR II. Both parties in that are full of characters that don't have arcs per se, but your perception of them changes as more is revealed through conversations and influencing them. Even Bao Dur. I had the guy in my party for most of my last playthrough because I rarely ever used him, and it's really a little disturbing how you slowly realise he isn't all meek and calm because he's a nice person.
Also, my favourite scene is Kreia at the Dantooine Enclave.
Remember to install the Restored Content Mod, too. It's vital.
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Post by lieden on Apr 7, 2013 20:27:26 GMT 1
That's interesting! And, Restored Content Mod, noted.
(And gosh, PS:T is my favourite game, ever. It NEVER gets old.)
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Post by Warhammer Gorvar on May 31, 2013 14:12:56 GMT 1
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Post by Cali on Feb 18, 2014 9:38:37 GMT 1
Oh dear God, airport taxi spammers. For some reason this is infinitely more horrifying than kitchen pluggers for me.
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