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Post by Mr. Glow on Mar 10, 2012 17:27:04 GMT 1
I'll tell you something, though. BioWare has me back on the boat, if only because I have no rutting clue how the series will continue after this. I think BioWare are saying now that Mass Effect 3 is the end of the series or something. It's a bit of a 180 from when they said it was just Shepard's last game, but it does make sense, giving how much of the franchise they burn down in the ending.
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Post by jklinders on Mar 10, 2012 18:43:32 GMT 1
Miracle of Sound has released a video.
It's pretty good. Not as good as commander Shepard maybe but still pretty good.
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Post by Knightfall on Mar 10, 2012 21:01:10 GMT 1
I'll tell you something, though. BioWare has me back on the boat, if only because I have no rutting clue how the series will continue after this. I think BioWare are saying now that Mass Effect 3 is the end of the series or something. It's a bit of a 180 from when they said it was just Shepard's last game, but it does make sense, giving how much of the franchise they burn down in the ending. Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I don't like the ending. The last ten minutes of it, at least. It just doesn't make much sense in the grand scheme of things - and like people are pointing out, while it's not a cliffhanger, there's no real closure there. People are petitioning on the forums that BioWare should change it, and I almost agree that that's necessary.
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Post by jklinders on Mar 10, 2012 21:07:01 GMT 1
I viewed the leaked ending myself. The three main variants at least.
It's not bad, but not great. Unoriginal. Deus ex machina and frankly quite possibly torn wholesale from Deus Ex.
I would have preferred a darker ending that presented a hopeful point to look to the future. But this kills the setting wholesale.
Maybe it'll look better in context. But I doubt it.
I'm still hankering to get the game proper though.
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Post by Knightfall on Mar 10, 2012 21:47:45 GMT 1
It doesn't look much better in context because it doesn't have much context. It's a fairly random scene.
I get what they were trying to do, but it's been done before. It's pretty much Battlestar Galactica all over again. Like... the exact same ending. It's been done before countless times. Drew Karpyshyn had another ending written up that was much different, and while not exactly better, was a bit more original.
Luckily, though, there's a good sendoff before this part. It's a well-written goodbye to the series, so if the last five minutes can be disregarded, it still ends well.
Technically. xD
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Post by Tillian Panthesis on Mar 11, 2012 2:13:51 GMT 1
Honestly, the 9/10 of the game was well made that it's quite heartbreaking to see how the ending itself kinda pulls itself down to the crappers.
I'm not going to harp on the endings, you all know my opinion on it now. All I can say it's bad enough, that I've been spending more time doing my portfolio work, assignments and reading up on notes about the fundamentals of game design; than playing ME3. Especially the Game Theory notes. I will finish it eventually, it's just that I want to prolong it before I reach that damn ending. I really don't want to deal with end game anymore, but I'm a game designer, I have to see it through sadly if I want to be a decent game designer someday. I really hope that daunting task pays off for me.
Speaking of which, what are the chances in the future of seeing a saying like this:
"Did you hear about that new game? I hear they pulled a Mass Effect on that one."
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Post by Hodster on Mar 11, 2012 7:02:16 GMT 1
So when are we going to stop tiptoeing around and actually talk about what happens in the game?
Are we going to wait a few more days before we get into major spoilers?
The ending really didn't make me upset... that much. Well until I start thinking about it a bit more. Maybe.
Edit: You know what I'm like Knight in the fact that the more I think about it the more I dislike it.
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Post by Clint Johnston on Mar 11, 2012 8:53:04 GMT 1
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Post by Knightfall on Mar 11, 2012 9:30:19 GMT 1
Here's my exact thought process when it came to the ending. (Spoilers.)
1. Well, I guess that... kinda makes sense. The whole human/VI singularity thing has been hinted at since the beginning. Luna Base, Geth/Quarian, Overlord. I guess I can live with that...
2. Well, wait a second... What happened to everyone? Did everyone except Joker and EDI die?
3. Wait a second... EDI and Liara were just on Earth with the rest of Hammer. What are they doing back on the Normandy?
4. WTF was the Normandy doing hauling ass away from the battle?
5. Wait a second... So, everyone's stranded everywhere? Most of the Migrant Fleet is in the Sol System now, and I just got them their planet back! xD
6. What was the point of doing any of that in any of the games if everything was just gonna blow up, get merged, or get stranded?
7. No Mass Relays? No Citadel?
8. Three games of Shepard resisting and dying in his fight against the Reapers, and he ends up submitting to the thing that's controlling them?
9. This is pretty much the ending to Battlestar Galactica!
10. How is Clint gonna handle that ending in Mock Effect 3?
The ending can probably be interpreted in a bunch of different ways. Like I said, I have no idea where the series is gonna go from here. We have a new "antagonist" (the Catalyst), no more mass relays and no Citadel. Basically, most of the Reaper tech in the galaxy was just taken out. People have pointed out that everyone still has FTL, so the galaxy might be stuck with rudimentary technology for a time.
Really, it's not the endings themselves I have a problem with, it's that they didn't really offer much closure. You don't really get a good sense of what happened: to the characters, to the fleet, to Earth. Are all the races going to "homogenize" in the Sol System now?
I've been kinda staring at the wall trying to figure all of that out. What did you guys think? Which ending did you pick? o.O
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Post by jklinders on Mar 11, 2012 11:10:10 GMT 1
Here's my exact thought process when it came to the ending. (Spoilers.) 1. Well, I guess that... kinda makes sense. The whole human/VI singularity thing has been hinted at since the beginning. Luna Base, Geth/Quarian, Overlord. I guess I can live with that... 2. Well, wait a second... What happened to everyone? Did everyone except Joker and EDI die? 3. Wait a second... EDI and Liara were just on Earth with the rest of Hammer. What are they doing back on the Normandy? 4. WTF was the Normandy doing hauling ass away from the battle? 5. Wait a second... So, everyone's stranded everywhere? Most of the Migrant Fleet is in the Sol System now, and I just got them their planet back! xD 6. What was the point of doing any of that in any of the games if everything was just gonna blow up, get merged, or get stranded? 7. No Mass Relays? No Citadel? 8. Three games of Shepard resisting and dying in his fight against the Reapers, and he ends up submitting to the thing that's controlling them? 9. This is pretty much the ending to Battlestar Galactica! 10. How is Clint gonna handle that ending in Mock Effect 3? The ending can probably be interpreted in a bunch of different ways. Like I said, I have no idea where the series is gonna go from here. We have a new "antagonist" (the Catalyst), no more mass relays and no Citadel. Basically, most of the Reaper tech in the galaxy was just taken out. People have pointed out that everyone still has FTL, so the galaxy might be stuck with rudimentary technology for a time. Really, it's not the endings themselves I have a problem with, it's that they didn't really offer much closure. You don't really get a good sense of what happened: to the characters, to the fleet, to Earth. Are all the races going to "homogenize" in the Sol System now? I've been kinda staring at the wall trying to figure all of that out. What did you guys think? Which ending did you pick? o.O Spoilers continue Still haven't played but I already spoiled myself so whatevs. The 3 main choices all seem to boil down to what the control AI of the reapers think will happen. The Reapers exist because of a fear of a millions of years dead civilization that AI will achieve singularity and destroy all other forms of life. We have in game seen examples of how that would play out if we let it. We have also seen in game examples of how that was contradicted. The the end game choice boils down to how much you believe the control AI. I'll break down my interpretation of these endings eventually. Destroy, seems to be a big FU to not only every AI in the game that helped you along but to all the races that depend on tech as well. It dooms the galaxy to dark age of at least 100 years as they rebuild the tech that was destroyed. But it puts the evolution of organics back in their own hands again. The cycle is theirs to continue or break as they see fit through their actions. This is a renegade option mainly because of it's selfish nature. EDI, the geth and the quarians (very tech dependent them) would all die. I've got several problems with Control. One of them being, it was TIMs idea. Since he is almost always wrong I can't agree with it in the long term. The Reapers remaining passive depends on Shepard not coming around to their way of thinking over the course of the millenia. This is by no means certain as Shep will be merging his consciousness with them. But it could potentially allow for the fastest recovery from the war as the Reapers could for a time assist in the recovery. Merge...is...ick. It's both the creepiest and I think in the dev's opinion best ending. It skeezes me out to be frank but it would offer an out from the cycle that could potentially remove the AI organics question altogether. It's touted as the ultimate evolution for organics and technology. It's also a forced evolution on all of life simultaneously. Of the three options it is both the most permanent and oppressive solution. I think merge was the dev's idea of the "best" choice because it was shown at multiple points that the best outcomes came when AI and organic though co-operated rather than worked alone. EDI was very significant plot wise in ME 3 if things I had seen hinted at elsewhere (and need not be spoiled for me yet) are true. Destroying the mass relay network was an inevitable side portion of the end game. I don't really know why they did it in this case though. Since "God" is doing the work and they dropped the whole dark matter angle (which was my previous reason for thinking that mass effect tech would have to be dropped and for the reapers actions) it should not have been necessary from a narrative angle. My suspicion is that the framework for ME 4 had already been laid down when the ending was changed and they could not go back on it. Anyway, it's the journey that's important, not the destination. I know I'll love this game when I get it.
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Post by Knightfall on Mar 11, 2012 12:29:32 GMT 1
I ended up picking the Synthesis ending, which definitely seemed to be the one the devs wanted people to pick. It's actually pretty DX:HR in how it's set up, since you have the "Paragon" option on one side, the "Renegade" option on the other, and the middle way, which was the Synth ending. You even get a little Adam and Eve thing going on with Joker and EDI on some random jungle planet the Normandy somehow crashed on.
But it's like you said: journey above the destination. Everything before that part of the game was amazingly good. It's just that ending was WTF enough to just floor me, and I'm not entirely sure it couldn't have been handled with a bit more grace.
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Post by Tillian Panthesis on Mar 11, 2012 13:10:21 GMT 1
Anyway, it's the journey that's important, not the destination. True, especially when dealing crap in real life, but that's a differnt story. Going back to the subject, I have a few issue with the endings general and they have nothing to do with being a sad ending. 1. Unfortunate implications and lore destroying.While I was scouting around the BSN site, the developers themselves were trying to convince their fans that the endings are not as bad as it seemed, with the reapers are being dealt with and the Normandy crew survived from their crash. However, even without using effort to use my imagination, I've already felt a bit disturbed with the aftermath. First off I'm getting a nasty "Lord of the Flies" vibe when the Normandy was stranded on some planet, not only there's a chance that their rations weren't big enough to last a while if they stranded, but also there's an implication that they did start a colony on that planet. (correct me if I'm wrong.) The crew itself were small enough that they couldn't sustain a viable population, unless either they managed to make an alternative way to travel across the galaxy or they had to make a few desperate choices to maintain their people. Again, I don't want to explain in detail of that possibily, because I feel disgusted if I do so. If you want to get an idea on such dire sernario, think "Lord of the Flies" or remember that one quest from ME2, when the crew were stranded on Aeia. (See Jacob's Loyalty quest) Speaking of needing to find an alternative way to travel, the galactic civillisation were basically were bombed back into a sci-fi version of the dark ages. In my own personal opinion, I think that's going backwards. Even if they recover from the loss of the Mass Relays, the future games won't feel the same, hence they kinda burnt their IP in a sense. Plus there's another sad implication that not only some of the species were left stranded from their homeworld, but also a few turian and quarian survivors might die from stavation back on earth. Again, a really bittersweet ending with the empathsis on the word "bitter". Yes, the war is over, but with the state of the galaxy, I'd say being wiped out a much more merciful fate than the afterburn of the war in those endings. Again, personal opinion. 2. Wrong Game Design decisions.While I can see that BioWare wants to empathse "War is Hell" over and over again with a beat stick, I think they have forgotten that they are making a game. An RPG at that. I could go on about what they did wrong during the process with an in-depth discussion of Game Theory, but that would take an accademic after-report, which I'm working on atm for the sake of being a accademic myself. Instead I'll keep it short as I can. First off, there's a reason why a full blown tragic ending(s) didn't work with ME3. I think it's due to the genre itself. An RPG. A basic RPG would usually give the players make their own decision, while providing those concenqunces to them. From what I have observed with the fans back in te BSN site, they were unhappy that their choice and concenqunces were thrown out of the airlock at the last minute when they hit end game. They were expecting to see a major differnce with those endings due to their actions. Instead, they were railroaded into an ending that have only a few variations to it and the lack information in regards to their past actions in the aftermath of the game. Hence that's why a lot of people were unhappy, even more so if the endings were bitter in a sense. Before anyone starts questioning about being bias againist sad endings, I've seen better sad endings from other video games. Red Dead Redemption, Max Payne 2, LA Noire, Okamiden, etc. And why did they work? Because they have a decent build up on how it ends on a sad note. (Eg: I knew Cole Phelps from LA Noire had it coming because it's a noir genre and usually those stories don't end well.) Mass Effect 3 endings... it just came out of nowhere, especially with the Normandy being stranded at the end. In my own informal words that are unsuited for accademic discussions: How the fuck did that happened in the first place?Let's not even start about relationship between the game and the gamer discussion (I'm talking about game theory, not about their obsession with their "waifu"). Again, that would take an essay, which I'm work on at the moment. All I can say is that BioWare were too obsessed with their pet project and they didn't think thoughtly about the gamers' perspective toward the game itself. It's kinda like a writer who was too busy focusing on their techniques, proses, grammar and other things, but didn't have a fresh viewpoint of being entertain by their readers. This is why probably they made a poor decision on the ending... they had never saw it coming with their angry fans going down on them like a tone of bricks. It didn't helped one of the developers constantly says "What do you mean what's wrong with the endings? There's nothing wrong with it." answers. Again, it proves that they lack the foresight of their audience. That's all I can vent at this time. I kinda feel silly writing this. It must be one of those nights I have, with my head not working straight atm.
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Post by Hodster on Mar 11, 2012 17:31:24 GMT 1
SPOILERS!
One of the things that makes this ending not satisfying is the fact that you never see what really happened to the galaxy afterwards and you never see what your choices actually did.
Really what did getting all the war assets really do? Did they really do anything to change the game?
The actual endings... well I was fine with it up to until Anderson died. Once you meet The Catalyst or God or Mister Reaper Master, why the hell did you listen to him? Why would you listen to a guy who thought wiping out all organic life every 50,000 years was a good idea? Why the hell did Shepard not question him? To me Shepard didn't feel like my Shepard during those last 3 min. You're basically giving 3 doors and you just pick one. Then the Normandy... why was it running away? How the hell did Edi and Tali get back on the ship.
The thing I thought of was that Shepard was hallucinating that whole last part, and going to the ME3 forums I saw I wasn't the only one. I kinda what to believe it because a lot of things don't make sense. You have a gun that you never have to reload. Anderson is apparently just ahead of you but you never see him. The people with Hammer is all of the sudden back on Normandy. Many people are thinking that from the time Shepard gets basted by Harbinger to the ending is all just a hallucination by Shepard while he's dying. Or even from the time Anderson dies to the ending is a hallucination. Idk but I kinda want to believe it.
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Post by Knightfall on Mar 11, 2012 22:56:25 GMT 1
The ending definitely needs a little tweaking. Even if they don't want to change the sense of the ending, the content of it doesn't make sense. I think they need to give a token explanation for why the Normandy was fleeing the battle like mad, why some of the Hammer crew were magically back on the Normandy, and maybe a little more closure of some kind.
At times like this, I wish the game had a DA:O-style epilogue.
As for the dream thing, I'm slow to think that was the case. It's interesting, but that's a weird dream to have. Though, that would explain why the Catalyst appears as the kid Shepard couldn't save. I dunno. I'm hoping BioWare makes an official statement on it soon, because dislike for that ending seems to be universal - which is a new one for the BSN.
Still, fantastic game! Weird, unnecessary ending. xD
Not sure if anyone wants to try this on their PC version of the game, but apparently the "From Ashes" DLC is actually built into the game, contrary to what BioWare have been saying.
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Post by Warhammer Gorvar on Mar 11, 2012 23:27:06 GMT 1
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