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Post by Mister Buch on Aug 30, 2010 14:53:33 GMT 1
My only real issue with Shepard's reconstruction is that now, surely, anyone can be brought back? It had crazy implications...
From Red Dwarf:
LISTER: They've probably made great advances in that sort of thing... RIMMER: Oh, yes, I expect they cured death the instant we left Earth! Doctors' surgeries are probably packed with the dead! "Oh hello Mrs Johnson, dead again, are we? Just take two of these once a day, you'll soon be living again. Carol? Next corpse please."
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Post by Nemonus on Aug 30, 2010 16:57:59 GMT 1
True. I was stuck on why they couldn't cure Joker ( and other people and other diseases) with this technology. I guess it's explained by the money and by the fact that Cerberus is a private (and selfish) organization. That's flimsy, but...it's sci-fi.
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Post by Battlechantress on Aug 30, 2010 22:39:06 GMT 1
While on the one hand it would be cool to see Joker get cured, I think a bigger part of me would be P.O.'d if they fixed him "just like that." As in, "Oh hey, a six hour surgery fixed everything!" Oh? How? I'd figure with a condition like that, any treatment/cure would probably have some pretty devastating side effects (but that's the nurse in me ).
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Post by Nemonus on Sept 3, 2010 18:34:18 GMT 1
Mordin does say "I think I've found a cure for Joker's disease...no wait, that would cause liver failure." : P
It would seem like a ripoff for there to be a miraculous cure. They'll probably leave him like he is in ME2.
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Post by ommadawn on Sept 6, 2010 2:22:02 GMT 1
I'd be surprised if Joker's health gets better in any way. It sort of defines who he is and how his personality works far too much to have some miracle cure "fix him".
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Post by Mr. Glow on Sept 6, 2010 3:14:30 GMT 1
That said, he did seem a lot better in Mass Effect 2, firing an assault rifle, pulling a heavy soldier up from a ledge and presumably doing some light running. All that's quite an improvement from 'might break his legs going to the bathroom'
Maybe Cerberus gave him a Gene Tonic or something?
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Post by Battlechantress on Sept 6, 2010 4:19:51 GMT 1
Funny, I brought up his shooting shit with an assault rifle up on the BW boards, and people just shrugged it off. "Oh, the disease only affects his legs." Fine, but there's still RECOIL to consider (if you still can't have unlimited ammo in the 22nd century, then you must have recoil too! Especially considering what they tell you about the krogan shotgun!), and if his legs are that freaking fragile, you can't tell me a gun like that isn't going to affect him somehow! I wonder if the devs were too lazy to put his leg in a brace (it was mentioned that he needed one in ME1, yes?) for that part of ME2 where he had the lovely interaction with EDI. ("I enjoy the sight of humans on their knees.")
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Post by Nemonus on Sept 6, 2010 6:04:43 GMT 1
In real life that disease affects all parts of the body. Recoil would definitely be something to worry about. It's part of his character that he does everything he can to not let the disease stop him, and to be a useful member of the crew--i.e. his actions at the endgame. I'd love to write a fic about his thoughts there, why he thought he would be more useful at the airlock than in the bridge.
I sortof assumed that he still has the leg braces in ME2--they just didn't bother to change the character model for them.
I think it's canon that he did get some sort of "Gene Tonic"--slight reconstruction that made him a little more durable. I agree with ommadawn though that it would change his character a lot if he didn't have the disease. I wonder if he would be as appealing if his arrogance didn't come from having to overcome a lot.
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Post by jklinders on Sept 6, 2010 13:27:01 GMT 1
I've already shot my load about my thoughts on many of the Bioware boards community. That's the reason I'm here. The simplest answer I can find for Joker firing a rifle in the end cutscene is this. In the bad ending where everyone dies there is no one else to do it so Joker does what he can to cover Shepard. Changing a cutscene to have multiple variables takes time and money. Logic says that one of the highly trained super soldiers take his place when they are available, cutscene logic puts assault rifles into many hands that do not have the training for it.
What does this mean? Joker was not really firing the assault rifle, it was eye candy separate from the narrative. If he cracked his ribs in the crash landing it is a sure bet that firing a rifle will damage his shoulder. An untrained person who is completely healthy will often hurt themselves the first time they fire a gun and I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that Joker is untrained.
'sides Seth Green probably asked to have an extra hero moment. Why not? He's earned it.
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Post by Battlechantress on Sept 6, 2010 22:17:45 GMT 1
I can't see Seth Green asking for it, actually. I think it was dev laziness with regards to the cutscene, which makes more sense. Also, how were they able to run around without an air supply in space? Did I miss something?
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Post by Knightfall on Sept 6, 2010 22:44:57 GMT 1
The movie Unbreakable showed me that anyone with brittle bone syndrome needs to be a super villain. =D
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Post by Nemonus on Sept 7, 2010 1:49:37 GMT 1
That's interesting if one considers Mass Effect to be an entirely mutable story, dependent on the vagaries of the individual for its canon. (Which it is, since so many decisions are based on the player.) I'm skeptical, though, about erasing a whole cutscene from canon-- a cutscene that appears regardless of the player's decision. The science in that scene is no more implausible than "mass effect" itself.
I'm content with thinking that the severity of Joker's disease is downplayed because the writers of the game didn't want us to focus on that while playing. If we focus on that while writing fanfic...great.
lol good question. I always just assumed that part of the Collector base had accrued its own atmosphere. (Which, yes, makes no scientific sense.)
: D Love that movie. Loved it before I played Mass Effect, lol'ed about it afterward. Those two could take over the world.
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Post by Battlechantress on Sept 7, 2010 2:42:18 GMT 1
If you ever bothered with multiple playthroughs of ME and choose different endings, you still see the same cutscene of the final battle. That's probably why Joker keeps the damned assault rifle. Edit: I mean, devs are frickin' lazy. Or something. Hello, floor!
Note: I am drunk and tipping slightly in my chair. I have no idea if I am typing coherently.
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Post by ommadawn on Sept 9, 2010 1:39:03 GMT 1
Perhaps Joker's was hurt while firing the rifle, but is so used to breaking bones, he just soldiers on and spray's fire regardless of how it hurts him. It is a critical point in the mission, and he would have to have at least some basic training from his time in the military; meaning he would know how to hold and fire a standard weapon, even if he was no marksman.
That's my take on the scene anyway.
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Post by jklinders on Sept 9, 2010 3:16:56 GMT 1
My vote is still for dev laziness/budget. There is precisely one sitation where it is absolutely necessary for Joker to be the one giving cover fire. That is if absolutely no one else got to the Normandy alive before Shep's team. Joker is literally the last person on the ship to be doing it, not just for health reasons but because he is the bloody pilot. I think the pilot would have better things to do while the collector base is going to pieces around them like being in the pilot's seat ready to get them out. If even one crew member, not to mention any of the super soldiers got there first it should have been one of them...from a narrative perspective. As for Joker's potential for being healed, I expect he got quite a bit of gene mod just to be able to walk when he was a kid. Medical advances in the ME universe are very little short of magic but they make it clear that gene therapy has potential downsides and there are limits to what they can do. Since the whole suicide mission cinematic angle had cutscene logic up the wazoo happening I still place Joker using an assault rifle squarely in that category. Maybe he could do it, but I don't see why he would if there was someone better able to on hand.
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