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Post by Battlechantress on Aug 6, 2010 22:51:17 GMT 1
It creates plot problems only if you romanced someone in ME1 and then romanced somebody else in ME2. I have 3 characters from ME1 who did the ME2 runthrough, and only one bothered with an ME1 romance. That one bothered to stay faithful to Kaidan (though, after Horizon, all I can say is, "Bioware BETTER make it worth my while!"), another hooked up with Garrus, and the other just stayed single (I thought about Thane, but the whole "terminal illness" thing, just... yeah).
Aside from Garrus, female Shepards basically got shafted in ME2, IMO. (Though I'd understand if guys thought the same about their female LI options; I just never played a male Shep past half of ME1.)
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Post by Battlechantress on Aug 7, 2010 16:58:25 GMT 1
"Porcelain white skin" is a very old fashioned standard of beauty that dates back to Elizibethean times in Europe and probably further back in parts of asia. Hell it might even go back to Roman times where lead infused makeup was used to give the impression that the lady in question has never seen sunlight. That's right ladies a suntan was considered ugly in the old days because it implied that the lady had been doing something other than sitting in a pretty room somewhere looking pretty. With the former in mind I am not too surprised that a Mormon writer is using such old fashioned nonsense in her descriptions of her own repressed sexual fantasies.(if it was not obvious enough I was referring to Twilight there.) I think that ties into the "ideal" for women (Athenian particulary, if I remember right) back in the day. "Noble" women weren't supposed to do much of anything. In fact, being an Athenian woman was a hell of a lot worse than being a Spartan woman. Imagine being sold or forced into marriage at the age of 14 to a guy 2-3 times your age-- and that's assuming you weren't left outside to die of exposure just for being born a girl, being told not to do anything in terms of physical activity, and all but told that you can't leave the house without an escort! (Sound famililar? Like Taliban-controlled Afghanistan? Hmm!) Most Athenian women died in childbirth because a lot of the time, they were still essentially kids! Spartan women didn't have it a whole lot better, but they were expected to do physical conditioning, wait until 18 to marry and have kids, and were generally treated slightly better than their Athenian counterparts. As a result, they tended to survive childbirth a bit more often. I saw one article about 13th century European women that gave us this as their "beauty ideal": women were pale, with pot bellies, plucked-to-make-receding hairlines... and no eyelashes. I think that goes right up there with foot-binding as "really stupid ideals of 'beauty'." Edit: And no, the mention of pale skin is not intended as a slam against those who are naturally pale skinned! (Heck, my mom is, and I think she looks fine.) But there's a difference between "naturally pale" and "sickly pale" (which usually went along with "frail, prone to fainting, etc."), which is what I was trying to get at.
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Post by jklinders on Aug 7, 2010 18:11:44 GMT 1
I am lacking somewhat in a classical age history education but I was under the impression that in Sparta women were close to being equals with men-provided that they were of Spartan descent. An excerpt from wikipedia follows. "Spartan women enjoyed a status, power, and respect that was unknown in the rest of the classical world. They controlled their own properties, as well as the properties of male relatives who were away with the army. It is estimated that women were the sole owners of at least 35% of all land and property in Sparta.[70] The laws regarding a divorce were the same for both men and women. Unlike women in Athens, if a Spartan woman became the heiress of her father because she had no living brothers to inherit (an epikleros), the woman was not required to divorce her current spouse in order to marry her nearest paternal relative.[71] Spartan women rarely married before the age of 20, and unlike Athenian women who wore heavy, concealing clothes and were rarely seen outside the house, Spartan women wore short dresses and went where they pleased. Girls as well as boys exercised nude, and young women as well as young men may have participated in the Gymnopaedia ("Festival of Nude Youths").[72][73] [edit] Historic women Many women played a significant role in the history of Sparta.[74] Queen Gorgo, heiress to the throne and the wife of Leonidas I, was an influential and well-documented figure. Herodotus records that as a small girl she advised her father Cleomenes to resist a bribe. She was later said to be responsible for decoding a warning that the Persian forces were about to invade Greece; after Spartan generals could not decode a wooden tablet covered in wax, she ordered them to clear the wax, revealing the warning.[75] Plutarch's Moralia contains a collection of "Sayings of Spartan Women", including a laconic quip attributed to Gorgo: when asked by a woman from Attica why Spartan women were the only women in the world who could rule men, she replied "Because we are the only women who are mothers of men"" We are severely crippled in any serious study of Sparta though in that they were sloppy in keeping their own records and the ones who were very good at keeping records in Greece were the Athenians. Regarding Sparta I would have to hold Athenian sources as suspect if only because Athens and Sparta got along about as well as 2 cats in a sack.
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Post by Battlechantress on Aug 7, 2010 18:45:58 GMT 1
Archaeology does seem to bear out the fate of many Athenian women and girls, unfortunately. It's been suggested (and I don't have the book right in front of me to quote directly from) that the myth of the Amazons was created to keep Athenian women in line. The theory behind that is that women who wanted to be "proper ladies" and not be viewed as savages would put up with whatever crap the men had them do (or not do). Since they didn't have rights, they could be divorced by husbands and left with nothing if they didn't comply. Societal pressure can be a funny thing. Personally, I think my being in Athens at the time would not have gone well. I don't think I have to explain my reasoning.
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Post by jklinders on Aug 7, 2010 18:55:22 GMT 1
Archaeology does seem to bear out the fate of many Athenian women and girls, unfortunately. It's been suggested (and I don't have the book right in front of me to quote directly from) that the myth of the Amazons was created to keep Athenian women in line. The theory behind that is that women who wanted to be "proper ladies" and not be viewed as savages would put up with whatever crap the men had them do (or not do). Since they didn't have rights, they could be divorced by husbands and left with nothing if they didn't comply. Societal pressure can be a funny thing. Personally, I think my being in Athens at the time would not have gone well. I don't think I have to explain my reasoning. You need explain nothing of how you would view life as an ancient Athenian woman ;D The status of women in most places was that of a slave in those days. Which is why it is so bizarre that it was different in Sparta, from divorce to marriage to inheritance and even education women were closer to equals with men in Sparta than at any time and place I can see short of 20th century western society. Frankly I don't get it. The ancient sources were pretty clear on it though. It would have sucked to be a Helot in ancient Sparta though. So they were on about a par with the rest of the world regarding slavery.
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Post by Mister Buch on Aug 8, 2010 20:55:47 GMT 1
*Returns to the boards, tries to catch-up...*
What?
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Post by jklinders on Aug 8, 2010 21:55:36 GMT 1
*Returns to the boards, tries to catch-up...* What? Sorry about the OT talk there Buch. Chantress had the misfortune to say something that got my history bug going. I think we are done now.
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Post by Mister Buch on Aug 8, 2010 22:14:23 GMT 1
No, no. No worries. Don't stop on my account - just wanted you to know how lost I was!
When the topic is "What the hell is this?" I think there's no foul in changing it to a history debate.
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Post by Clint Johnston on Aug 9, 2010 1:47:25 GMT 1
As my B.S. in History can attest, History is a load of fun.
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