|
Post by Mister Buch on Feb 28, 2013 21:56:15 GMT 1
But Clint what do you mean by 'don't agree' with homosexuality? And why? That's very vague.
And the child - not fitting in is one thing, and not such a terrible thing. Denying your feelings and failing to figure your personality out - that's much worse.
And we never said anything about 'a right to do as we please'. Killing and wearing clothes traditionally associated with the other gender are not comparable. Come on now. You talk about the police? Identifying as the other gender is not a crime, Clint.
And even if it were, it's an uncourageous thinker who refuses to cross the law. Never stop yourself doing something because you 'won't fit in', please.
|
|
|
Post by lieden on Feb 28, 2013 21:59:12 GMT 1
I keep lagging in my replies! Buch, spot on regarding gender. Clint - aha! Now I can interrogate you. This is not a trap question, I'm pretty clueless when it comes to the Bible - so why does the Bible say that homosexuality is wrong?
|
|
|
Post by Lily Ariel Linders on Feb 28, 2013 22:04:09 GMT 1
Transgender child - If your child started killing things for fun, would that be ok? If they stole whatever they got their hands on, is that just being in touch with themselves? The point of parenting is to be a guiding influence on our children's lives. To encourage them in their gifts, and discourage them from wrong behavior. Not many parents live this out nowadays, and those that do usually take it too far. Oh dear gods above and below is this EVER not the same thing at all. This is a terrible comparison. Just terrible. Murder and theft is illegal. Being a girl or being a boy is not. Nor is being true to oneself. There's no possible way to compare the two. Also, the whole concept of gender identity has in the past and even now lead to situations involving harassment, leading to assault and in some cases murder ( Brandon Teena , anyone?), and also suicide for those unfortunate people who do not have such loving supporting parents. Trying to compare gender identity to murder and theft is disgusting. And it seems to me that you are simply trying to stir up emotions. Again. Making comparisons that really make no sense. So, aside from calling you on that little bit of manipulation there, I will simply back off.
|
|
|
Post by Mister Buch on Feb 28, 2013 22:06:28 GMT 1
I..... don't think Clint is aiming to stir emotions. I find the guy very calm and straight (ableit very evasive). Although I agree that it's a very poor comparison.
|
|
|
Post by Clint Johnston on Feb 28, 2013 22:10:23 GMT 1
But Clint what do you mean by 'don't agree' with homosexuality? And why? That's very vague. And the child - not fitting in is one thing, and not such a terrible thing. Denying your feelings and failing to figure your personality out - that's much worse. And we never said anything about 'a right to do as we please'. Killing and wearing clothes traditionally associated with the other gender are not comparable. Come on now. Disagreement - I hesitate to pursue this since it invariably angers people. I don't think I'm going to take up that particular fight right now. If I gave that idea in my post, please excuse me. Denial - How is it worse to choose others over yourself? That isn't denial, it's respect. This boy may indeed decide to become a girl, but that's decades away. Right now all he/she and the parents are doing is attempting to force the school to value them over all the other people who use that bathroom. That's not tolerance, that's blackmail. I think culture has lost how to have that in the last twenty years. It's all entitlement. "Something must be done because I am unhappy!" Drastic examples - Alright, let's aim for simpler issues. Hitting another child. "He's just acting out his natural aggressiveness" Lying about things. "She's expressing creativity" Stealing. "Look how clever they are" These are things that happen everywhere, but society doesn't accept them just because the child feels like it.
|
|
|
Post by Mister Buch on Feb 28, 2013 22:15:08 GMT 1
Choosing other over yourself? I cannot fathom how you can see it as that. In what way does the girl hurt others? By upsetting bigots I suppose.
What you're telling me here is that it's selfish to stand up for yourself if the majority is against you?
Hitting a child, Clint, hurts the other child. Calling yourself a girl does not. It might sit poorly with homophobes, but you really think that 'other people disagree with you' is justification for silencing yourself?
This is a silly, extreme example, but slavery was generally accepted once. Was it disrespectful and selfish to push for abolition? Do you think Rosa Parks was being selfish and ignoring the rights of others by refusing to give up he seat?
Just because something is the norm does not mean that it is wrong to fight it.
|
|
|
Post by Lily Ariel Linders on Feb 28, 2013 22:17:45 GMT 1
I..... don't think Clint is aiming to stir emotions. I find the guy very calm and straight (ableit very evasive). Although I agree that it's a very poor comparison. Oh, aye - he's very calm. Very calmly pressing exact buttons that he knows will upset people, when he knows he can't properly justify any of what he says. Come on! Comparing gender identity with murder?? And Lieden - you know he's just going to say that the Bible says it's wrong "because it's wrong", or "man was made for woman" or "procreation" or some such currently irrelevant 'justification' that does not apply to modern times. I apologise in advance for this little blow-up here, but I cannot stand straw-man comparisons and arguments that don't properly justify the point they claim to be trying to make. And now I really will back off.
|
|
|
Post by Mister Buch on Feb 28, 2013 22:19:24 GMT 1
I just don't think Clint is out to 'push buttons' is all. But now I'm starting an argument within an argument.
|
|
|
Post by Mr. Glow on Feb 28, 2013 22:19:57 GMT 1
Jesus guys, why are you all such retards? You get into arguments, complain about it, then create threads about stuff like this. Why? It's a forum about Mass Effect and Fanfiction, not Debate Club.
|
|
|
Post by Mister Buch on Feb 28, 2013 22:23:00 GMT 1
Bunch of people in a room. One of them brings up the issue of gay / transgender rights and other people feel strongly about the comments made. They speak out, he speaks back. I don't see the 'retardation' there on either side.
Perhaps our problem is that we are all too interested in politics.
|
|
|
Post by Lily Ariel Linders on Feb 28, 2013 22:25:46 GMT 1
Than I will back off. I apologise for trying to have a proper discussion about something that actually interests me. I apologise for not being able to understand homophobia and transphobia and therefore being irritated when a 6 year old child knowing they are a girl at heart is being compared to murder and violence. I absolutely despise those sorts of irrelevant comparisons that are deliberately chosen to piss people off and are essentially comparing apples and chocolate bars.
So this is me officially backing off this thread.
|
|
|
Post by Mister Buch on Feb 28, 2013 22:29:20 GMT 1
I now see the wisdom of the title of the thread. I'll give you that, old chap.
|
|
|
Post by jklinders on Feb 28, 2013 22:33:23 GMT 1
OK
We have gone from discussing the nature of transgenderism to making comparisons between allowing a transgendered child to act as their nature makes them comfortable to allowing them to commit crimes against other people.
And then arguing about whether that is a valid comparison.
There is no more value here.
Locking.
|
|