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Post by Lily Ariel Linders on Jun 2, 2013 3:18:14 GMT 1
I'm just kidding. But he did start it, and I think when you write an idea this sacrilegious and you are also Glow then you have to expect people to wonder if you were deliberately 'trolling'. I also don't see why it's sacriligious... I mean, really... just because an idea was proposed that took an alternate view of Jesus? Is it also sacriligious to make a game where one can play an evil witch, and to use Wiccan beliefs? If not, then that's a rather irritating double standard. Also, I figured you were kidding - I just needed to check though, since I seem to accidentally offend people just by existing and I need to make sure I don't continue to piss people off just by expressing opinions or interest in other ideas.
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Post by Mister Buch on Jun 2, 2013 3:32:06 GMT 1
Accidentally pissing each other off seems to be catching on this site. We're all doing it.
Glow's idea about the evil Jesus and trivialising the Gospels into a sort of strategy game - yeah, a bit sacrilegious. Just a bit, and obviously I'm not offended since I oppose the book on a daily basis. I was just jokingly saying that if we're going to argue, we might consider that maybe he was stirring a bit and turn on the bloke who started it! Not really though.
The Wicca thing - not sure, since I don't know much about the religion, and I wonder if the 'wicked witch' trope is an attack on Wicca exactly or is a separate thing where 'witch' was a medieval term just meaning "bad person with strange powers" or "not the same denomination as us and once had a disease that caught on"? No idea though - I really don't know anything about the religion so this isn't meant as a counter-argument or anything like that.
Going to bed. All of the above because of a joke.
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Post by Lily Ariel Linders on Jun 2, 2013 3:43:36 GMT 1
Don't a lot of Role-Playing Games take Historical situations and turn them into strategy games? Is it all "trivialising"?
Wasn't the Assassin's Creed games a series of so-called "trivialising" regarding the Crusades (AC1), the Borgia papacy (AC2 and AC: Brotherhood), something regarding the Ottoman Empire (AC: Revelations) and the War of Revolution (AC3)? Are those "trivialising", or are they valid games? Granted, I haven't played any of the Assassin's Creed games, but... I think I know a little bit about the stories...
All I'm saying, is that any historical situation (and yes, the Bible is History) can be made into a good game.
(This section removed and re-sent in PM form)
Now, let's move on to more cheerful topics.
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Post by Mister Buch on Jun 2, 2013 3:48:13 GMT 1
People are more touchy about religious beliefs than they are about historical events like the Crusades etc. Both cases are things being trivialised but there's a difference between mocking / playing with the Borgias and doing the same thing with a deity that people worship. Do Assassin's Creed gamestrivialise or are they valid - both. I'm not suggesting censorship. Just saying the Jesus game was slightly insulting to some Christians. Not that I think that's a bad thing, but that's another debate entirely.
I'm sure Jesus Christ's dilemmas and responsibilities could make a great game, and I'd encourage it. But I was just saying it would also not be well-received, and understandably so, by the many people who believe he's a God they love and follow. I'd encourage the game regardless.
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Post by Lily Ariel Linders on Jun 2, 2013 3:52:00 GMT 1
I thought the Crusades was all about religion. Christians going around Europe stamping out any non-Christian people, specifically (according to Wikipedia) Muslims, Pagans, and so-called 'heretics'.
How is that not about 'religious beliefs'?
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Post by CAPT Issac R. Madden on Jun 2, 2013 3:54:31 GMT 1
Speaking of wicca, I've only run into two "bad" wiccans. And they scared the FUCK out of me. They reasoned that the rede didn't apply to them since they were doing what they did "for the greater good of Mother Earth". Needless to say, this Christian teamed up with other Wiccans to sort that one out.
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Post by CAPT Issac R. Madden on Jun 2, 2013 3:56:09 GMT 1
I thought the Crusades was all about religion. Christians going around Europe stamping out any non-Christian people, specifically (according to Wikipedia) Muslims, Pagans, and so-called 'heretics'. How is that not about 'religious beliefs'? The Crusades were in response to militant Muslim expansion (convert or die, pretty much). No white hats on that one, though the Muslims technically started it when the Moors invaded Spain.
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Post by Mister Buch on Jun 2, 2013 3:56:18 GMT 1
I didn't say they weren't about religious beliefs. I said that the historical event that is the Crusades is not the basis for a religion. The reported life of Jesus is. Making fun of history is a little irritating to the scholar in me. Making fun of my neighbour's God worries the peacenik in me. I encourage both! I'm not opposed to the Jesus game.
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Post by Lily Ariel Linders on Jun 2, 2013 3:58:58 GMT 1
Speaking of wicca, I've only run into two "bad" wiccans. And they scared the FUCK out of me. They reasoned that the rede didn't apply to them since they were doing what they did "for the greater good of Mother Earth". Needless to say, this Christian teamed up with other Wiccans to sort that one out. *sigh* Great. And it's nutcases like that that give us all a bad name. Greater Good of Mother Earth my arse. On behalf of Wiccans who are not crazy as fuck, I apologise that you had to encounter those scary types. But, to snatch a phrase, the deluded ones who think they are above the Rede do not know what real Wicca is.
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Post by CAPT Issac R. Madden on Jun 2, 2013 4:08:29 GMT 1
Speaking of wicca, I've only run into two "bad" wiccans. And they scared the FUCK out of me. They reasoned that the rede didn't apply to them since they were doing what they did "for the greater good of Mother Earth". Needless to say, this Christian teamed up with other Wiccans to sort that one out. *sigh* Great. And it's nutcases like that that give us all a bad name. Greater Good of Mother Earth my arse. On behalf of Wiccans who are not crazy as fuck, I apologise that you had to encounter those scary types. But, to snatch a phrase, the deluded ones who think they are above the Rede do not know what real Wicca is. No apology needed. I know what Wicca is truly like. We're trying to get to the same place, but take different paths. But those two experiences did make me wary of people (more than usual) since I happened to be the bait (the "black" Wiccans HATED Christians for transgressions that occurred centuries ago and I was a convenient piece of bait... do the math from there.).
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Post by CAPT Issac R. Madden on Jun 2, 2013 4:11:24 GMT 1
I didn't say they weren't about religious beliefs. I said that the historical event that is the Crusades is not the basis for a religion. The reported life of Jesus is. Making fun of history is a little irritating to the scholar in me. Making fun of my neighbour's God worries the peacenik in me. I encourage both! I'm not opposed to the Jesus game. Strangely, I admire this attitude, Buch. If someone challenges my beliefs, it forces me to re-examine them in a new light. Thus I can either become stronger in said belief, or learn of a shortcoming that needs to be addressed. Either I find myself correct and come up with a new argument to further my position, or I find myself lacking and try to learn why I'm lacking so I can grow.
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Post by jklinders on Jun 2, 2013 4:15:03 GMT 1
Regarding Glow's idea... relevant. Really he didn't mean any harm but what about a game where there is a random prophet, let's call him George or something? It's actually a really cool idea. Lets not get bogged down in a holy war over this simply because the specifics are a little too..specific. As for the rest, I'm not gonna move these posts yet... but anything further in this vein should go in R&P.
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Post by CAPT Issac R. Madden on Jun 2, 2013 4:19:32 GMT 1
Linders: I saw that and thought of Guilty Gear... ("Heaven or hell? LET'S ROCK!!!") ;D
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Post by Mister Buch on Jun 2, 2013 4:20:23 GMT 1
I'm picturing Glow reading this and wondering what the hell happened. Just for the record I wasn't trying to say his idea was wrong or insulting or that he meant harm. I was just making a joke and it went out of hand. That'll do for me.
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Post by CAPT Issac R. Madden on Jun 2, 2013 4:25:54 GMT 1
I'm picturing Glow reading this and wondering what the hell happened. Just for the record I wasn't trying to say his idea was wrong or insulting or that he meant harm. I was just making a joke and it went out of hand. That'll do for me. It's alright. The whole world knows you Brits typically lack a sense of humour that the rest of us can understand.
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