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Post by jklinders on Apr 1, 2011 16:32:51 GMT 1
Why a spoon cousin, why not an axe or a... I said whining about politics Buch. The main difference between somebody involved in politics and me right now is that political folks get paid to do nothing... Because it's dull, you twit! It'll hurt more! Also - sorry xD Oh cripes don't worry about it. I hate politicians at least as much as 10 Ashleys. Especially right now as we are going through another thoroughly unneeded attempt at a power gr-er I mean election over here. I couldn't hate our sorry excuse for a Prime Minister that we have right now more if he had murdered my family. He's done nothing but grub for power since he was first elected in 2006. Pretty easy to write Arrival in. There was no choice in the outcome at all so there was only one way for it to go and that means absolutely no work whatsoever for the writers to put it in ME 3 regardless of your save file. Worst DLC since Pinnacle Station. And I'm pissed that I paid good money for it.
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Post by Mr. Glow on Apr 1, 2011 22:41:16 GMT 1
Yeah she was pretty shallow, but aside from Wrex most of ME 1's characters were. I just fail to see how someone like Ash could be a part of the military without understanding the realities of how politics muck things up. Gotta disagree with you there Linders. I liked nearly everyone in that game, which I certainly cannot say for the sequel. Ashley in particular, was a favourite of mine, so I really have to disagree with you on her shallowness. She was great!
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Post by jklinders on Apr 1, 2011 23:17:53 GMT 1
I liked the characters but they were kinda shallow.
Aside from Wrex, Ash was the best of the lot. It took balls on Bioware's part to make her religious. Aside from that her purpose was to be a sort of renegade pro human foil for the paragon Shepard. Her family life was set up mostly to back up her anti alien stance.
Tali was mostly a very wordy intro into the Quarians. Regrettably I did not see much of her personality really start to shine until ME 2. Otherwise she was very much a typical girl next door.
Garrus is the not by the books cop from every bad buddy cop movie from the 80s. All we needed was a scene with Executor Palin where he demanded Garrus turn in his badge to complete the picture.
Kaidan, EMO kid with dark troubled past, only really not THAT dark and troubled.
Wrex, the tired old warrior disillusioned from his people after an unforgivable betrayal.
Liara high school crush. Full stop, I did not find her interesting at all in ME 1. I got more out of her in her brief appearances in ME 2 than in all of ME 1.
I like the characters but I was given little surprising revelations from them. There is a reason they used these formula though. They work. People like them but I had no surprises from any of them so to me they were not very deep. That ME 1 had better characters than ME 2 says more about ME 2 than ME 1. It really is a shame that Bioware was so quick to toss aside the old squaddies. They could have developed them more and it would have been awesome but instead we know less rather than more about the people in the game.
A character being likable is not the same as having depth. The big difference is that in ME2 most of the characters were wholly unlikable. Miranda and Jacob in particular..
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Post by Mr. Glow on Apr 1, 2011 23:42:47 GMT 1
I liked the characters but they were kinda shallow. Aside from Wrex, Ash was the best of the lot. It took balls on Bioware's part to make her religious. Aside from that her purpose was to be a sort of renegade pro human foil for the paragon Shepard. Her family life was set up mostly to back up her anti alien stance. Tali was mostly a very wordy intro into the Quarians. Regrettably I did not see much of her personality really start to shine until ME 2. Otherwise she was very much a typical girl next door. Garrus is the not by the books cop from every bad buddy cop movie from the 80s. All we needed was a scene with Executor Palin where he demanded Garrus turn in his badge to complete the picture. Kaidan, EMO kid with dark troubled past, only really not THAT dark and troubled. Wrex, the tired old warrior disillusioned from his people after an unforgivable betrayal. Liara high school crush. Full stop, I did not find her interesting at all in ME 1. I got more out of her in her brief appearances in ME 2 than in all of ME 1. I like the characters but I was given little surprising revelations from them. There is a reason they used these formula though. They work. People like them but I had no surprises from any of them so to me they were not very deep. That ME 1 had better characters than ME 2 says more about ME 2 than ME 1. It really is a shame that Bioware was so quick to toss aside the old squaddies. They could have developed them more and it would have been awesome but instead we know less rather than more about the people in the game. A character being likable is not the same as having depth. The big difference is that in ME2 most of the characters were wholly unlikable. Miranda and Jacob in particular.. STOP PICKNG ON ME! Waugh!
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Post by jklinders on Apr 1, 2011 23:48:17 GMT 1
Sorry, I was actually agreeing with you about liking the characters.
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Post by Mister Buch on Apr 2, 2011 3:30:01 GMT 1
I think you're oversimplifying the characters there. You could reduce the ME2 crew just as easily.
It's true that Tali, Wrex and Liara served largely as introductions to their species (and I hadn't really thought of that), but the game needed to do that, it being the first. Ashley and Kaiden were both deeper and far more believable than their equivalents, or anyone else for that matter, in Mass Effect 2. And that second thing - believability - is what I think every Mass Effect 1 character has over those in the sequel.
Thane, for example, has a fairly complex backstory and set of beliefs but it's all very silly. Give me a young, frustrated cop who doesn't know what rules he wants to follow over an emotionless hanar-trained super-assassin who believes he has no free will and wears an open leather jacket, any day! Jack, Kasumi, Grunt, Mordin - while I love these characters, they are pretty ridiculous. I'd say every ME1 character is more realistic, subtle and effective, and that Williams and Alenko... and maybe some of the others... are more complex.
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Post by jklinders on Apr 2, 2011 5:01:03 GMT 1
Well the Me 1 characters were archtypes. They didn't really deviate too much either. ME 2 characters suffered from there being too many. Thane's belief system could be a form of brainwashing as well. After all assassins that question their role too much can be something of a liability. Liara and Tali were introductions to their species and apart from a whiff of the hero worship from Tali and far more than a whiff of the hero worship from Liara, not really much else. Oh Liara's mum was Matriarch Benezia, I guess that helped a bit. But Wrex was so much more. Everything from his Normandy dialogue to his elevator chat reeked of personality. He gives off that whole vibe of having seen so much that he has nothing more to prove.
Tali just gave off a young girl vibe( which is OK since she was). Frankly I think I was very clear that the ME1 crew was better. But I still contend that calling any of these characters deep within the confines of ME 1 is a stretch. The older crew was developed over an extra game and changed between ME 1 and ME 2. Garrus lost his idealism with his own crew and Tali had people die under her command. These were big game changers for both of them. Ash, Kaiden and Liara were all love interests so they got more attention. Plus there were fewer squaddies cluttering up the equation making it easier to see them differently.
All the squaddies from ME 2 only were established in their place. There was no 2 year stretch of time to cause any changes and their beloved commander was not killed and brought back to life to confuse the bejesus out of them. This limits their character arc in relation to the older characters. If you take what you have in ME 1 only, take into account that love interests ALWAYS get more screen time I find at least a bit less difference in the characters in the 2 games than all that.
My .02
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Roman Candle
Lieutenant
For relaxing times, make it Suntory time.
Posts: 120
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Post by Roman Candle on Apr 11, 2011 6:44:59 GMT 1
The problem with Arrival was that it wasn't fun.
Nah, that's not entirely true. But it definitely seemed to me to be lacking considerably. I'm the easiest person to dupe in video game plots ever. But the doctor's betrayal and overall behavior just struck me as silly. You could tell she was going to pull a fast one from the beginning. No one wears overalls like that unless they mean to stab you in the pack.
Never trust those overalls.
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Post by Mister Buch on Apr 11, 2011 15:28:50 GMT 1
Well said.
And those overalls didn't have anything to hold up the sleeves. The sleeves are just, like, glued or something to her arms. Seriously.
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Post by jklinders on Apr 11, 2011 16:12:38 GMT 1
Well said. And those overalls didn't have anything to hold up the sleeves. The sleeves are just, like, glued or something to her arms. Seriously. Clearly a mental patient to be dressed so...
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Roman Candle
Lieutenant
For relaxing times, make it Suntory time.
Posts: 120
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Post by Roman Candle on Apr 13, 2011 2:39:25 GMT 1
I just realized I said "stab you in the pack" rather than "back."
Go me.
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Post by Mr. Glow on Apr 13, 2011 2:44:44 GMT 1
I just realized I said "stab you in the pack" rather than "back." Go me. Nobody touches these babies. And yep, the plot twist was hardly on Bioshock's level. Even Shepard can bring up indoctrination on the drive over, only for Kenson to just brush it off in the most suspicious way possible. And those overalls are the exact same ones Shepard can wear on the Normandy. Arrival would've been way more fun if Kenson was a dude and wore Meathead's fabulous orange jacket.
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Post by Mister Buch on Apr 13, 2011 8:30:34 GMT 1
I love the orange jacket. (It's so bad.) The one time I played renegade, I was rocking that orange jacket.
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Post by Tillian Panthesis on Apr 13, 2011 12:30:18 GMT 1
And Kenson who dons with a punk haircut to liven up the DLC a little.
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