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Post by Nemonus on Sept 25, 2010 5:22:42 GMT 1
Lately I've been struggling with finding the right point of view to tell a story from. I have no shortage of ideas (or at least not in fanfic, but this applies to original fic also.) For example, in a story about a conversation between Thane, Shepard, and Joker, I'm not sure which character's point of view would serve the story best and would illuminate all the themes I'm trying to put in. This is a new problem for me, although I'm not sure why since POV has to be considered in any story with an ensemble of characters.
Any tips?
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Post by lieden on Sept 25, 2010 6:14:21 GMT 1
If you think you can pull it off (it's tricky and has to be done carefully), you can pass from one character's PoV to another's along the narrative. Might be a bit too far to go for all three, though, so you could narrow it down to two characters.
Usually a good place to switch PoV is a change of scene. Or maybe a pause in the conversation.
Rough example: Ch1 talks with Ch2, thinks and observes. At some point they think Ch2 looks troubled. 'What bothers you?' Ch1 asks. Focus on Ch2 and their next action; from there you can just as well hook onto their thoughts, and so on.
Hope this makes some sense!
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Post by Knightfall on Sept 25, 2010 8:20:43 GMT 1
Sometimes it depends on the length of the story, since with a longer story you have the ability to juggle perspectives without losing the reader so much.
Shorter stories, though, it's best to keep as few POVs as you possibly can without damaging the story. With the example you provided with Joker, Shepard, and Thane, it really depends on who the focus of your story is going to be. Even with a multi-character story, there's always one who becomes the focal point in some way.
Personally, I'd follow Shepard, since he's the Commander and just by his job description he'd know a lot about his crew, giving you more room to work with in terms of defining the scene. Like the example Lieden gave, Shepard would probably pick up on little behavioral ticks like whether or not they're restless about something they're talking about, allowing you to let the reader know what everyone in the conversation is thinking without actually switching POVs.
But there really are various ways you could go about it, and that's what makes it fun. You can make Shepard your focal point for the conversation between the three, and then perhaps switch perspectives to Thane or Joker afterward to catch their reflection on what had been discussed. But you really don't want to flash back and forth too much, since it's disorientating. To me, at least.
Not sure if I actually answered anything in there, but I hope that helps. =/
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taj1702
Serviceman 3rd Class
Posts: 26
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Post by taj1702 on Sept 25, 2010 9:51:35 GMT 1
I'm going to agree with my esteemed colleagues here for the most part. In a shorter story I agree, you don't want to change perspective too often. I'm with Lieden, in that one or two perspective changes is fine in a shorter narrative, but if you go much further then that you run the risk of turning the entire thing into a jumbled mess. Honestly when I'm writing, I tend to choose one perspective and stick to it for the entire scene. As far as which perspective I choose and how I go about making that choice it depends on a couple of things. Usually when I'm planning a scene I have a particular aim in mind and in fan fiction and original writing alike and usually that determines my perspective. I'm pretty sure that paragraph didn't really answer the question at all, so maybe I'll try a different tack. As far as illuminating your themes and serving the story, I think that those are pretty well the same thing. I think a lot of it is about having fun while you write it as well. If you're not having fun with it on some level, then what the hell's the point. That all being said, yes Shepard might pick up on more of what's going on as the conversation goes on, recognize more of the other's reactions, but it might be fun to see what Joker's thinking as the discussion goes on. It all depends on intent. I personally like dipping away from the main character's perspective sometimes. I think I've been doing a lot of "talking" on perspective and I'm not even sure I've made MY POV clear, so I hope you find what you're looking for on this thread.
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Post by Mister Buch on Sept 25, 2010 17:00:14 GMT 1
You don't really have to pick a POV, of course. You could just write as the omniscient observer who understands all of them at once.
Or you could write from all POVS, just going in deep for individual characters with say, a big paragraph that gets deeper into their feelings. Or - break (literally or more subtly) the scene into three parts. The beginning for one character, the middle for another...
One interesting idea would be to write the piece three times, and deliberately make the story seem different for each. Knightfall and I did that once - Joker and Kaidan's first meeting. We worked out a 'script' together for the action and dialogue, then went away wrote it in prose from each of their perspectives. The two end results told differing versions of the scene, based on how we two had understood the script / imagined the scene, and how the different characters would view it. It was a lot of fun. Something like that might be a fun experiment, if you find yourself wanting to see every POV.
--
I worry about POVs too. I find it very hard not to write from one entrenched POV, whatever I write. It improves that character and I like writing like that - but the problem is it makes every other character more shallow.
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Post by Knightfall on Sept 25, 2010 21:17:21 GMT 1
I was reading the Joker and the Thief the other day! We did damn good work, I won't lie. xD
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Post by Nemonus on Sept 26, 2010 8:07:46 GMT 1
I think I read part of "The Joker and the Thief". (Which is a song I can never hear again without thinking of Mass Effect, despite the lyrics not fitting at all...)
Mister Buch, I really like your idea of making a short story (I wasn't imagining this to be more than a thousand words) longer by telling the same scene from three different POVs. It would really be a challenge, but sounds a lot of fun.
Taj1702, your second paragraph did kindof help, because usually I have an aim in mind too. XD It's just lately I've been stuck. I also find myself jumping into flashbacks and tangents too easily (you guys might have seen that in "Spectral".)
Also, I guess we all need a reminder about it being just for fun sometimes. It is that!
I do also like the idea of Shepard being the one who would pick up the most about her teammates.
Not sure what I'll do yet, but thanks for the help, everyone.
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Post by lieden on Sept 26, 2010 8:38:00 GMT 1
I personally strongly disagree with the retelling of the same scene by different PoV's. I've yet to see it well done (haven't read your story, Buch & Knight!), and in the cases I've read such a thing it struck me as very redundant. I feel that a story must generally move on; some backtracking (especially from different PoV's) might be enriching, but a full rewind (as I see it) is definitely not contributing much.
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Post by Mister Buch on Sept 29, 2010 23:29:46 GMT 1
We handled it magNIFicently.
No I can see your point there lieden - within one story (ours was two but the final chapter of each was the same scene) it might become boring for the reader, even if it is a lot of fun for the author.
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Post by Knightfall on Sept 30, 2010 2:24:04 GMT 1
I learned a lot about good ways to utilize POVs from the Thrawn Trilogy, as crazy as that sounds. Zahn did a great job of showing a lot of characters without losing the reader. For an example of a very restricted POV, Ender's Game would do.
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