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Post by Knightfall on Aug 5, 2010 2:08:45 GMT 1
I agree, definitely. I'm glad that he found success with his books, but stretching the story out for so long requires his characters to live, no matter what. You lose tension, you lose realism, and as the years pass, the characters start acting differently as the author grows.
I've only read The Crystal Shard, Streams of Silver, and The Halfling's Gem, and that was the perfect trilogy to me. Lots of adventure, good characters, and the books didn't overstay their welcome. I can't even imagine what the story's become after over twenty books! I kinda don't want to know. ><
Though, I hear he finally did kill one of the main characters off in the last book. Finally, though it wasn't even a character I cared for. =/
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Post by jklinders on Aug 5, 2010 2:38:37 GMT 1
Every main character in every one of his books I read was a perfect example of his or her character class. Yeah he kills one off every now and again but it is always the cool sacrificial death. Raymond E Feist is another example of the same kind of author. Loved his books, characters tended to have the odd flaw here and there but they were still all unstoppable badasses.
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Post by Battlechantress on Aug 5, 2010 2:52:44 GMT 1
On a not-quite related note, it's "perfect heroes" like on ff.net that made me go out of my way to make my two Shepards so royally screwed up (and non-white. Okay, yeah, I'm a mixed blood in RL too, but I was sick of "porcelain white skin and bright blue eyes" over and over again. And more than a few were perfect bastions of humanity to boot. FFS, give them PMS at least, people!).
On the other hand, I detested the main character in "Watermind" by M.M. Buckner. The protagonist is "sexy but self-destructive" (it's from the back of the book, I swear), sleeps with her boss (thereby cheating on her boyfriend), gets knocked up, generally behaves like an ass, and never apologizes... for the ENTIRE book. I think the author tried too hard to make her unlike fantasy heroines, and the result was one frustrating novel. (I also disliked the fact that the protagonist's boyfriend was a Louisiana native who-- surprise-- was a high school dropout and a musician. Oh, and spoke Creole. Way to enforce those stereotypes, Buckner!)
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Post by jklinders on Aug 5, 2010 3:01:04 GMT 1
On a not-quite related note, it's "perfect heroes" like on ff.net that made me go out of my way to make my two Shepards so royally screwed up (and non-white. Okay, yeah, I'm a mixed blood in RL too, but I was sick of "porcelain white skin and bright blue eyes" over and over again. And more than a few were perfect bastions of humanity to boot. FFS, give them PMS at least, people!). On the other hand, I detested the main character in "Watermind" by M.M. Buckner. The protagonist is "sexy but self-destructive" (it's from the back of the book, I swear), sleeps with her boss (thereby cheating on her boyfriend), gets knocked up, generally behaves like an ass, and never apologizes... for the ENTIRE book. I think the author tried too hard to make her unlike fantasy heroines, and the result was one frustrating novel. (I also disliked the fact that the protagonist's boyfriend was a Louisiana native who-- surprise-- was a high school dropout and a musician. Oh, and spoke Creole. Way to enforce those stereotypes, Buckner!) If you like flawed characters in a book and if you have a really strong stomach try Stephen R Donaldson's The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever. Six of the most difficult to get through books I have ever read(may be up to nine by now he did a third trilogy recently). The only redeeming quality that the main character has is a colossal sense of stubborness about the reality of his experiences. And it is completely believable given how he is set up. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chronicles_of_Thomas_Covenant,_the_Unbeliever The link is a wiki article about the books. If approach the books as understanding you will never like the character they are a bit easier to get through. I first read them when I was 15. It was and remains the heaviest fiction I have ever read but really cool.
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Post by Battlechantress on Aug 5, 2010 3:08:11 GMT 1
I own tattered copies of the first three books, actually. He was also at SoonerCon back in '07 (and I know that because I went on after him with my bellydance troupe, no lie). Edit: Here's some free advice about bellydancing with swords after a fan buys you a few margaritas in between shows: don't do it. You'll survive, sure, but you'll scare the hell out of your partner (and possibly nearly fall off stage).
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Post by jklinders on Aug 5, 2010 3:11:08 GMT 1
well....fine then. Actually you are in the minority of people I have met who have even heard of the books much less finished reading them. *bows head in respect*
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Post by Knightfall on Aug 5, 2010 3:58:58 GMT 1
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Post by jklinders on Aug 5, 2010 4:07:02 GMT 1
Nice, I think I may bookmark that one for giggles. Is it wrong I used to read most of those authors?
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Post by Battlechantress on Aug 5, 2010 4:13:18 GMT 1
I admit to liking "The Golden Compass", but the remaining two books in the series left a lot to be desired. As for "Dune", I have tried, I really have, but I'm in agreement with MGK over the rest of the series regardless.
Hell, I think most of us here have read quite a few authors on that list. It just goes with the territory.
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Post by ommadawn on Aug 5, 2010 4:21:51 GMT 1
I've read the first two Thomas Covenant trilogies a couple of times, actually, over the years (and probably just revealed how old I really am ) He really is one of the most flawed fantasy characters I've ever experienced, and that's saying something. Donaldson's writing style can be hard to read as well, and almost impossible without a dictionary handy, but it was a ripping yarn! As for Dune, I love the books Frank wrote (and Dune is one of the most re-read books I own) but the rest range from ordinary to awful, sadly.
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Post by Nemonus on Aug 5, 2010 7:28:03 GMT 1
The Thomas Convenant series is certainly strikingly different, and well-written. Skewed, but well-written. I've read probably four of them, have the six "originals" (there's nine?) at home somewhere because I got them for free off a friend who was moving.
I oughta try "Heroes Die" again. I could never get into it, but love Stover.
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Post by Knightfall on Aug 5, 2010 10:57:52 GMT 1
I oughta try "Heroes Die" again. I could never get into it, but love Stover. I've been thinking the same thing lately. His writing style in HD is so raw in comparison to his Star Wars novels, it was a real a turn-off. Might pick it up again...Might.
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Post by Mister Buch on Aug 5, 2010 13:38:28 GMT 1
I just got hold of a copy of 'Dune' - I will be having a good look at that ASAP. Tough read, is it?
I'd like to try Heroes Die sometime too, just to see what you were talking about, Knight.
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Post by Clint Johnston on Aug 5, 2010 14:08:27 GMT 1
Where are you all of you fantasy reading people? I hardly ever get any fantasy nuts (I mean that in a good way) coming into my library. And when I do, it's vampire fanatic soccer moms who started with twilight. Ugh.
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Post by jklinders on Aug 5, 2010 14:08:43 GMT 1
I just got hold of a copy of 'Dune' - I will be having a good look at that ASAP. Tough read, is it? I'd like to try Heroes Die sometime too, just to see what you were talking about, Knight. You kind of actually have to read Dune twice. Read it once so the story is not spoiled. Then read the 50-80 page appendix so you can find out what the hell was going on and then read the book again and say "Ohhhh that is what the hell they were talking about"
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