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Post by Cali on May 20, 2013 6:51:26 GMT 1
That check better not bounce or you're a deadmotherfucker. Heh, but thanks. I love this forum so much.
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Post by Warhammer Gorvar on May 20, 2013 12:20:20 GMT 1
Go hug a tree you hippy!
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Post by Mister Buch on May 20, 2013 13:13:34 GMT 1
Not sure how to respond. I really appreciate the sentiment, and I love this site too.
But it really is just that Iron and I just don't get on. Nothing more or less.
We have very strongly clashing, strongly-held opinions and don't like each other very much. When he types something, I get angry, and evidently vice versa. Arguments break out quite often, which is a shame but kind of unavoidable. After the nine millionth post about why gun control sucks, I kind of have to say 'No it doesn't', you know? We've yet to devolve into a full-on slanging match and neither of us wants the issue to do so - so I'm sorry if it's a pain but I don't think it's a problem that's going to threaten the boards.
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Post by CAPT Issac R. Madden on May 20, 2013 23:13:25 GMT 1
Disclaimer: as I write this, I am calm and would be speaking evenly if I were delivering this vocally. I am not looking to pick another fight, but to explain as best I can why I hold my points of view.
Buch, one thing I take exception to is how you have stated that you're an empiricist (to the point of throwing Sagan's extraordinary claims quote at me), but you don't give facts that support your argument regarding gun control despite the facts and evidence that I provide to support my arguments. You instead simply say "Iron is wrong" and leave it at that.
I also take exception to gun control because some of the measures that seem to be popular among congress would instantaneously make myself and hundreds of thousands of gun owners into felons overnight. My answer to the gun control debate will always be that it's not an issue of the instrument, but the person so focus on the actual problem rather than a symptom.Or perhaps pressure cookers should be legislated next. I'm being factitious there that is what many bans lead to, especially since I know of governments who think they should ban kitchen knives with pointy tips so people will stop stabbing each other. I can also point out numerous historical examples of people who willingly disarmed only to find themselves greatly oppressed. It's happened throughout history, dating back to medieval times at the very least. Any citizenry that has a ready means of protecting themselves
The fallacy is that "if we tell people they can't have them, they won't have them" which is the same fallacy people use with regards to North Korea's nuclear program.
Now, I understand people simply do not like guns. I do not begrudge them that belief until they decide I shouldn't be allowed to have one and that because I like guns (and other arms) that I'm somehow this psychotic murderer who is about ready to snap at a moment's notice or that I'm somehow less intelligent, inbred, full of hatred, and so on.
Please also note that it's not only my right to self defense that I defend warily, but my other natural-born rights of expression, privacy, presumption of innocence until proven guilty, the freedom to come and go as I please, and so on as well. I am always very wary and concerned when I hear of the abuse of natural rights. I'm not very fond of the PATRIOT act and its associated spin-offs, I was livid when I heard about SOPA, and I'm closely watching this IRS scandal as well as DOJ overstepping their bounds and illegally seizing the phone records
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Post by Mister Buch on May 20, 2013 23:18:20 GMT 1
I don't get into the specifics of gun control with you, because I don't like arguing with you. When I say something brief like "I disagree" I really, really disagree but I don't want another fight to break out. It's code for "hold me back!" I know you're suspicious that it's because I'm really talking out of my arse and arguing from a purely ethical standpoint. I'm not, but I don't care to talk about it any more. I can tell this is a big deal to you and there are good reasons you keep bringing it up. God knows I bring up my religious interests all the time. But I'm not engaging you on this.
If you and I are going to not start a punch-up in the middle of this party, we should not talk about the one issue we are most likely to go mad about.
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Post by Clint Johnston on May 21, 2013 17:17:43 GMT 1
Oh shit.
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Post by jklinders on May 21, 2013 18:49:41 GMT 1
Alright. *ahem* before the board blows up yet again let's try to remember just how much of this ground has already been tread. To recap, Buch has made it clear that he does not like to debate this is in this type of format beyond expressing disagreement. Iron has made his point several times here. Any replies involving guns to the above will go in that thread. That is full stop with a period at the end. To simplify and shorten the rants that a few of like to go into I would recommend reviewing that thread to see what has in the past been posted. Now here is the thing. There are only a few of us here. Most of us have said what we plan to on that issue already. If all we are going to do is circle around and keep nipping at each others heels on this then I will lock that thread and remove posts on the topic. Not because I am against discussing it but because we are all starting to sound like broken records. As long as it stays fresh and relevant, carry on but I will not condone repetitive bickering for the sake of repetitive bickering. now that I have made myself the board asshole for the day I will withdraw from this discussion and see how it goes.
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Post by Warhammer Gorvar on May 21, 2013 20:29:41 GMT 1
Saren dude, we like you man but seriously dont throw more oil on the fire here. Trust me, your karma meter will go down, you will have Meironmaiden shouting at you, the seas will be bpiling, four years of darkness, cats and dogs living together, mass hysteria.
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Post by jklinders on May 21, 2013 20:54:54 GMT 1
Seriously PM me if there is any need for clarity on what I just posted. I'm trying to draw a line on civil conduct here as there seems to be a bit of difficulty on that of late.
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Post by Mister Buch on May 21, 2013 21:41:51 GMT 1
Everybody has a right to there opinions Sorry, Saren. I don't think anyone is trying to silence you. It's just that Iron and me have a history of blowing up about gun control and we're nervous about you 'setting us off'. There's a thread about the gun control debate and I'm sure nobody will mind you putting any amount of opinion there. But this thread could do with stopping.
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Post by CAPT Issac R. Madden on May 21, 2013 22:47:54 GMT 1
In the interest of not blowing up this thread by re-hashing my old points yet again, I took it to PMs with him.
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Post by jklinders on May 21, 2013 22:50:48 GMT 1
Greatly appreciated.
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Post by Warhammer Gorvar on May 21, 2013 23:43:31 GMT 1
Can i play the end song of Episode I here? Feels fitting.
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Post by CAPT Issac R. Madden on May 22, 2013 1:35:09 GMT 1
You know... now that I think about it... I'm all for firearm suppression.
;D
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Post by A Normal Pathfinder on May 22, 2013 2:02:10 GMT 1
Cool Now everybody can get along
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