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Post by Mister Buch on Feb 4, 2013 1:24:09 GMT 1
Double that point. You hero, Glow.
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Post by mrstoob on Feb 4, 2013 3:31:06 GMT 1
In the moment, most people enjoyed ME with or without the EC. It was only after the fact, with hindsight, that people got angry. This doesn't include those who cannot fathom the age old sci-fi favourite 'organics vs machines'. It was only once people saw that red/blue/green, it made no difference really, apart from whether Earth got scorched or not. The main thing that the EC resolved for me was what was going on with the characters we'd come to love, rather than "are they stuck on that planet? I only saw 3 characters, what happened to the rest? etc."
2 cents thrown in.
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Post by jklinders on Feb 4, 2013 12:59:56 GMT 1
I'd say that the EC fixed most of the stuff I had wrong with the ending.
I really really enjoyed the game but I had a few problems with it's storyline. Things I have already mentioned elsewhere and for the love of God I'm done chewing on that bone. But the EC fixed most of the ending. The Deus ex machina effect Starchild had not one of the things fixed. This is what happens when you make the enemy so powerful though. You need a "God from the Machine" to bail your characters out.
I think that there is a few things in the third act, a couple of things in the first act I would have changed. I think the Reapers would have been more sneaky than all overpoweringly powerful to justify their victories. And their motives would have been left a mystery or made a whit of sense had I been on the writing team.
As it was they painted themselves into a corner and needed God to bail them out.
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Post by mrstoob on Feb 4, 2013 15:36:59 GMT 1
I'd say that the EC fixed most of the stuff I had wrong with the ending. I really really enjoyed the game but I had a few problems with it's storyline. Things I have already mentioned elsewhere and for the love of God I'm done chewing on that bone. But the EC fixed most of the ending. The Deus ex machina effect Starchild had not one of the things fixed. This is what happens when you make the enemy so powerful though. You need a "God from the Machine" to bail your characters out. I think that there is a few things in the third act, a couple of things in the first act I would have changed. I think the Reapers would have been more sneaky than all overpoweringly powerful to justify their victories. And their motives would have been left a mystery or made a whit of sense had I been on the writing team. As it was they painted themselves into a corner and needed God to bail them out. They could have 'creatively' got out of the corner if they tried. For example, the first cycle to unify the galaxy and build the Crucible could have given the Reapers pause for thought that maybe there is 'hope' for the galaxy beyond their solution and the options of the Crucible. In one of my FFs (*spoilers* for The Damned), that scenario sort of happens but creates civil war between the Reapers as they differ in opinion about whether the harvest should continue or a more permanent solution found to the machines/organics problem.
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Post by Warhammer Gorvar on Feb 4, 2013 17:23:50 GMT 1
I would've loved to have more Reapers in there, like indiivdual ones who enter into a dialogue with each other. Eventually half of them had enough of Harbinger;s shit and swap sides to the good guys. Like the Cylons did in BSG.
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Post by Knightfall on Feb 4, 2013 21:52:37 GMT 1
This is how I would've ended the series:
Everything is the same until you get to the room with The Illusive Man and Anderson, but that's where you make the control/destroy decision. TIM wants to control the Reapers himself, and while you can let him (and probably have to kill Anderson in the process), he'll, of course, use the Reapers to further a human-centric galaxy. Or, you can kill TIM and take control of the Reapers yourself, and decide what kind of galaxy you want to encourage.
Or, you can go the Anderson route, and destroy all the Reapers. The Catalyst does exactly what you always thought it would do, and uses the mass relays to transmit this Reaper kill code throughout the galaxy.
And then that's when the creepy Catalyst kid pops up and talks to you. He basically says, "Oh, boy, you feked up now, Shepard." That mysterious race that built the Reapers? Yeah, they don't want anything in the Milky Way Galaxy coming to prominence, and there's a big ass reason for that. Like, crazy important. (Maybe finally tie it in with the dark energy/biotic thing). So this race of Reaper-creators, they have a few hundred thousand years' head start on you evolution-wise, since they've been advancing while this galaxy has been getting wiped out every 50,000 years.
And they're not gonna like that you figured out how to shut down/control the Reapers. They're gonna be so pissed, and they're gonna be coming to do the job themselves. Maybe not in your lifetime, Shepard Commander, but eventually. And then the game proceeds to end in a logical way.
So, now, you have done a few things. 1. While you're still ending with a deus ex machina, the galaxy's still under threat. 2. You've established a new enemy for a future series more powerful than the Reapers: the ones who created them. Now you're moving up from interstellar politics and skirmishes to intergalactic warfare. 3. You've made it clear that this new invasion will take place in the future, which allows you to mitigate the choices from the three games in ways that you see fit, and maybe even transfer some of them over. 4. And because future games will take place in the future, you get to essentially recreate the ME universe and give players something refreshing. 5. You can also place spin-off games in that space after ME3 without wondering how to make sense of that clustercuss synthesis ending.
I don't like to tell people how to run their stories, and I don't think that's the best ending, but it would have allowed them more wiggle room with regards to their property going forward.
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Post by Warhammer Gorvar on Feb 4, 2013 23:37:38 GMT 1
What about the Leviathan?
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Post by jklinders on Feb 5, 2013 2:40:08 GMT 1
I don't have that DLC=no opinion
I wouldn't have done that from what little I do know though, perfect example of muddying the waters with extra info.
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Post by Clint Johnston on Feb 5, 2013 2:45:23 GMT 1
As I play through documenting the script I more and more get what they were going for, and I don't think I would implement Glow's ideas. I think they could have figured out a way for Shepard to live while still opening up a 3rd option, but what they did was pretty elegant. The red blue or green thing was ridiculous, and I'm still not sure I like the starchild, but I'm getting it.
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Post by mrstoob on Feb 7, 2013 13:24:24 GMT 1
What about the Leviathan? Taking their model from their 'masters', the Reapers did exactly what the Leviathan did: control the galaxy to their will/whim. The Leviathan can't have been that surprised when the Reapers (the AI at least) turned on them. That said, the Star Kid says that the organics failed to recognise they were part of the problem. Isn't that what the machines did too?
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Post by A Normal Pathfinder on Feb 24, 2013 2:24:59 GMT 1
Red Green Blue
Mod edit
Just moving this post to a more appropriate place. We got lots of ending talk right here.
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