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Post by Tillian Panthesis on Jul 9, 2009 12:18:04 GMT 1
So, I've reading on the web, more words than I should be since I got other things I have to deal with like writing my stories, painting and try to finish other games including "The Witcher". Since I'm reading quite a lot, I have a question that sprouted upon me from time to time.
What's the differnce between a genuine emotional story/character/art and a wagnst?
There's been arguements going around how Cloud (FFVII) was a nothing but a emo, whiny little mummy's boy; over the net. On one hand, the supporters say that he's been through a tough time with the loss of his hometown, family and his best friend Zack. Thinking about it, any sane person would be deeply upset and go nuts if that situation happens to them. (I know that feeling perfectly well enough since... well I'm from a refugee family, and my parents recounted collections are horrific at best.)
On the other hand, many people have complained how Cloud was over exgerated in the waterworks department. They say he's been overly-dramatic and poorly characterised as someone who been crying over his "troubles" like a baby.
Anyways, we're not here to start a flame wars in this forum since this about Mass Effect Fan Fictions, not about FFVII. I'm using that as an example of another literacy flawed technique that is plagued in both professional works and Fan Fictions.
(Btw, if you want to be heatly debate about this, take it to FFVII forums thank you very much, we're not in the mood to start riot over imaginary characters here.)
There's an old saying that goes, "easier said than done".
Apprently writting a moving piece about a character's journey to self-recovery from the traumatic events that sprung upon them is hard. While it's possible to write something that is capitvating and emotional to the point of being a tearjerker, there are cases that is being done poorly enough to the point it's becoming overly dramatic and in worse cases, being nothing more than a emo/wagnst piece that everyone would be scoffing about.
I'm still continuing writing about Shepard's trauma from the raids in Mindoir but it's nice to know see some advice when wiriting a piece like that, as I'm trying to improve my writing skills. Preparing for the time comes when I have to start something a little more professional...
So, what do you think about this everyone? Thoughts?
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Post by Rascarin on Jul 9, 2009 13:15:13 GMT 1
I suppose the difference between emotional and wangsty is in how well the writer is able to get the reader to empathise with the character. If the character is poorly written and unlikable, the reader is less likely to care when the character is going through their turmoils and troubles. However, in the case of a well-written and believable character, the reader is more likely to emapthise with them.
The writer has to get us to like the character first, so that we actually care when things go wrong. If we don't care about the character, then we won't care when they are troubled.
That was considerably less articulate than I wanted it to be. Did I make any sense?
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Post by Tillian Panthesis on Jul 9, 2009 14:48:55 GMT 1
You have a point there, Rascarin. I supposed in order to make the story work is to make the character to be more believable and full of quirks that we all do in real life.
Well I gotta write up (Elly) Shepard's profile, so I won't get side tracked. Thanks for the advice.
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Post by Mister Buch on Jul 9, 2009 14:53:10 GMT 1
It is all about quality of writing and the care taken to make good characters. Moments of high emotion need to be tempered by plot and characterisation. Emotion is good but you have to be careful I guess.
I never played FFVII but in my exerience the JRPGS are full of over the top angst. It's partly the style - big dramatic scenes and big action scenes with nothing but comic relief inbetween - but partly laziness. An emotional scene just needs to be done right and maybe not too much. Less is more.
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Post by Tillian Panthesis on Jul 10, 2009 4:40:05 GMT 1
You may have not played FFVII or it's spinoffs but you're on the right track in regaurds to JRPGS.
That's the problem with them that plague the genre nowdays: characters that are full of wangsty agast and the female characters that tends to be inhumanly delicate. And I mean much worse than Dawn Star in Jade Empire.
The youth seem to be influanced by this sort of wangsty trend, while I was wadding through countless of ME fanfic on the ff.net. I know, I know they are young and it's ME fanfic, I can't eaxctly go and bitch about since the list is not that attrocious... yet. Still, I've seen countless fanfics that describes about Shepard being sooooo full of angast from her/his situation including the Virmire incident, Colonist backdrop, Survivor backdrop, War Hero backdrop, Ruthless backdrop, etc, etc, etc. Bonus points if the writer adds colonist and survioir backdrop for the sheer pure buttmonkey.
It's ok to write up and explore the depths of tragic events, like I've did atm with my current work and I'm being understandable with the youth are kinda inexperianced in writing practices. (Hell, I'm still got a long way to go before I'll be on the likes of professional writers.) However, if there's one personal thing that really gets on my nerves is how these writers write off about Shepard being so moody about all this before she puts a bullet to her head. Yes I'm serious, I found a fanfic that talks about Shepard's being commited suicide due to the acts in Virmire...
Anyway, thanks for the tip Mr. Buch. I suppose I should sparring use the high emotional moments in the story and put it somewhere where it's more meaningful and pulls off effectively...
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Post by Cali on Jul 10, 2009 5:02:56 GMT 1
People who write angsty stories like that are similar to people who write un-extraordinary lemon fiction. They write it because they have a goal which blocks out all other creative aspects. They're mostly inexperienced writers trying to justify and further their own emotions and feelings, whether it'd be sadness or lust.
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Post by Tillian Panthesis on Jul 10, 2009 7:26:28 GMT 1
Justify? Why they are trying to enchanced their already moddy/lustfulness? Wouldn't it be bad for them?
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Post by Mister Buch on Jul 10, 2009 11:10:35 GMT 1
Ah well, you don't think straight when you're full of angst and lust. Ask any teenage boy.
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Post by Tillian Panthesis on Jul 10, 2009 12:06:37 GMT 1
Aren't we all cynical today Mr. Buch?
Teen girls can be full of angst as well, cause I've been there before with some of my peers at that age.
Maybe that's true but then again back then I'm not either angaty lusty teen back then. I might have some crush on certains students nothing beyound that. My head was screwed on properly enough that I've didn't pursue a boyfriend knowing the hazard it cause... unlike now.
Yes it's sad, I'm more mature in my youth more than my current adulthood
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Post by Cali on Jul 10, 2009 16:29:04 GMT 1
My point being that most of them are insane and/or socially inept and they have to resort to making themselves feel more alive.
Don't ask me how I know that. :[
EDIT: Gunnery Chief Promotion! Hoo-ah!
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Post by Tillian Panthesis on Jul 10, 2009 16:40:38 GMT 1
Staying sane throughout your teen years and watch your other peersgoes ballstic over trival things does make you pick up some obervations like that.
Anyway, another question to this topic.
Does Hurt/Comfort have sort of angsty stuff happening? I was thinking about changing my story genre on ff.net to hurt/comfort since that's kinda more appropriate but I was skeptical due to the flux of girls abusing those cetegories, Didn't help with a summery I found on the net like this:
Hurt/Comfort. A story where the author injures one character purely for the purpose of having another character tend to him/her, often leading to sex.
Is that true? I don't want to make people have the wrong idea about my fanfic. As I've before in the thread, there is no romance elements in it. Hardly at all.
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Post by Zarsthor on Jul 10, 2009 20:23:15 GMT 1
Talking about lusting girls... has anybody read the Transformers/Predator/Alien forums on Fanfiction.net.... Geezus christ son of all things lubed and pointy... Someone convinced me to read some of their Transformer fan fiction and my eyes immediately darted to the "romance" one because everything else looked ...well... like robots angsting. Robot/human rape, mutual pleasuring and um... I'm gonna call it bondage but it was seriously weird. She actually managed to fit this all into a couple of pages and packaged it like a world class short piece. I haven't a problem with erotica but girls on Fanfiction.net really like to push that boat out and dock it in Amsterdam. Young people are full of a lot of emotion and when they find a keyboard it seems to just flow out like an ill constructed swarm of match stick houses. If it was processed itno digestable bites for the everyday audiences then i would be works of art. Ok... I've gone off now and I'm not sure if I affectively moved from point a - b then c but I really was trying to.
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Post by Rascarin on Jul 10, 2009 20:27:50 GMT 1
... You should post a link to that one in the "Bad Fanfiction" thread. So I can read it. So we can all mock and laugh at it.
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Post by Zarsthor on Jul 10, 2009 20:36:50 GMT 1
I can link a number of erotic fan girl stuff if you like. Theres a really poorly written one I used to review ... mostly to beg her to stop writing it ... that involves so graphic scenes... I will post so you can't read them then ....
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Post by Mister Buch on Jul 10, 2009 23:09:56 GMT 1
I haven't a problem with erotica but girls on Fanfiction.net really like to push that boat out and dock it in Amsterdam. That was really funny ;D
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