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Post by Tillian Panthesis on Aug 8, 2009 17:03:04 GMT 1
So I was snooping on the net again while twring down a brief outline for the first act in Empires in Fragments I've stumbled across the novel review of City of Bones by Cassandra Claire. Someone mention about her committing plagrism a while ago, so I've looked up on the net and found this: www.fanhistory.com/wiki/Cassandra_Claire%27s_PlagiarismFirst thing first: We have posted our crap onto fanfiction.net right? not only we're using BioWare's IP for our sandbox but also once in a while we put into other things like little qoutes or inspiration from the other works into ours. Even Mister Buch is kinda guilty in using a small segment of the lyrics from Hendrix. And if you want me to self-decapitate to prove that I'm also guilty in this with you guys... I've used a good segment of Breaking Benjamin's lyrics in The Human Flock, a tiny stanza from Adrianne Rich's poems in Little Wing and a small segment of the lyrics from Utada Hikaru's Beautiful World in Mindoir's Lullaby. I know it's disgusting how she sold off the Draco Trilogy for profit when it should be belong to JK Rowling, but the point is that according to the part of the article, she got banned from ff.net due to not achknowledging that some of the good poportions from another work. That's when I've come to you guys... for help. As I've said before, I've used a good amount of influances from other works and using qoutes and lyrics within the story to spice up the fiction piece. The problem is when there's a line to draw that you should not step in to get banned like her? We all use Mass Effect to write our own stuff, didn't we just broke the rules with it as well? Well I think you guys know this a lot better than I am since I'm still kinda new to this tbh...
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Post by Cali on Aug 8, 2009 17:05:34 GMT 1
People just can't seem to grasp the difference between "ripping something off" and "homages".
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Post by Zarsthor on Aug 8, 2009 18:51:45 GMT 1
Ok I briefly ran my eyes over that article. The difference between fan fiction and what Cassandra Claire seems to have done is quite separate. She's used quotes and sections of other peoples books from a different series to the Harry Potter one. She's also not properly given credit. All credit would be going to the Harry Potter Franchise and Cassandra Claire rather than the real authors. As long as you credit something in your Fanfiction that is not your own its fine because its not for money and as long as the author is fine with people fandoming them. Stealing sections of another authors story isn't the same as borrowing ideas or making small quotes.
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Post by Knightfall on Aug 8, 2009 23:09:03 GMT 1
I really don't think that anything's wrong with little homages, as long as you make it obvious within the realm of the story. I always make it really obvious, so that it doesn't look like I'm trying to sneak anything past the reader. It sounds like what she was doing was taking entire sections from various books to act in stead of her own writing.
Sound lyrics, movie quotes, game allusions/quotes, even book quotes are okay by the FF.net staff, but once you open that book with the intention of piggybacking other authors, then one might be inclined to tone it down.
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Post by Mister Buch on Aug 8, 2009 23:58:01 GMT 1
This is very interesting. I would have thought that, seeing as all the writing on FF.net is not published or in any way the author's property, we'd all be allowed to write whatever the hell we wanted. It's FAN fiction, so surely one could argue she was a fan of all those things she ripped off...
That said, she was ripping off, evidently for reasons of laziness rather than some sort of homage. That's the difference. I've used lines taken directly from pop culture - intended as comic referneces - in my parody stuff. And me and Knight do reference the Bob Dylan / Hendrix record, but that's clearly an homage or an inspiration. In a couple of fics, me and Knight have lifted lines directly from Star Wars, Portal and the like, but again - it's meant as an obvious and deliberate homage.
So there's a clear difference between what Claire has been doing and what so many of the rest of us have.
But - who cares, really? It's fan fic. Shouldn't we all be allowed to include whatever we want? We alredy have someone else's characters - why not lines?
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Post by Zarsthor on Aug 9, 2009 0:28:20 GMT 1
Hmm I kind of disagree there Buchy. Characters yes, quotes ok but ripping off entire sections of someone else's story just feels wrong. Homage and theft is different. A good writer, even a fan fiction writer shouldn't need to steal. Its disrespectful against the original work and the authors. Its also shameful. I'd be very much ashamed if I ever did that.
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Post by Mister Buch on Aug 9, 2009 0:33:26 GMT 1
Its disrespectful against the original work and the authors. Its also shameful. I'd be very much ashamed if I ever did that. So would I, believe me. Don't get me wrong- it's absurdly bad writing. I just think there shouldn't be rules against it on the fanfic site.
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Post by Rascarin on Aug 9, 2009 0:42:08 GMT 1
I've not read the link, nor most of this thread, but is essentially what this lady is doing using other peoples fanfiction, and passing it off as her own fanfiction?
Because I disagree heartily with that. If she has credited the other author and said "This is my fanfic, BASED ON this other persons fanfic, with their permission", then thats ok.
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Post by Mister Buch on Aug 9, 2009 0:47:57 GMT 1
She was writing Harry Potter fics, with lines and passages lifted from published books (not Harry Potter books) and similar, and passing them of as her own, integrated within her own work.
It'd be different if it was fanfic. Stealing from published books is one thing, but stealing from other fanfic is somehow much worse in my eyes. Then I'd have her banned and killed.
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Post by Rascarin on Aug 9, 2009 0:52:21 GMT 1
I don't understand this at all.
Either way, plagiarism earns you a good kick in the teeth. Someone steals my stuff, I'll lop their effing head off.
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Post by Zarsthor on Aug 9, 2009 1:33:17 GMT 1
I've gotten plagiarized a couple of times in my music work. Managed to get one of them in serious trouble for it. I don't feel guilty in the least that they failed college because of it. There own bloody fault. I'm not sure what made me more angry, the fact they stole my work or what they then did to my work. *Shakes a fist*
I think fan fcition should have some standards. Stealing sections of other peoples books not related to the fan dom you are writing for and not giving credit is one of those standards. Its not YOUR fan fiction then. Its a Frankenstein monster with some serious identity issues and we all know what happened to Frankie's creator.
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Post by Tillian Panthesis on Aug 9, 2009 3:46:59 GMT 1
Interesting comments and personal opinions there. I've supposed there's a fine line in what is acceptable and what is not acceptable with the Fan Fiction realm. I do agree that taking a big porpotions from other books and works without achknowledging them is wrong and not only that but it's hard work to cover up where they are located in your works but also... it's a sure fireway to cover up that jarring fact that you're nothing but a shit writer. Call me arrogrant but I can write decently enough without looking up at other people's work and not steal a paragraph or two into my works, unlike her. I've let my own style and expression to do the work for me instead. So if she's a good writter she wouldn't nees to use other works and implemented as her own, right? Reading a review of her recent works "City of Bones", one can be sure that she's not a good writer since now she can't used a decent amount of poportions from other works to cover up the blemishes.... But let's leave that to another thread like... bad fanfiction Where was I? Oh yeah, plagarism. It's fine to have some sort homage as long your showing that it's a homage to another work. As for the article, I'll explain it briefly Scarin. Claire took a big proportions of another work into her own and not achknowledge in her disclaimer. That work is actually professional standards, that's when the confusion dropped in. taking something from another fan fic is one thing but to take something from a professional work is... well it's more a mirage may vary. At the end of the day, you have to achknowledge which work you've took it in as homage and also, be yourself when writting your own shit... UPDATE: I've compiled about the homage part with ff.net in my blog. tilliancatcher.livejournal.com/8863.htmlThe acutal plagarism and stealing the paragraph as your own to cover up your writting blemishes, that's entirely on the differnt topic that's why I've didn't write as I'm saving that for the future post...
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qerona
Serviceman 3rd Class
Posts: 12
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Post by qerona on Aug 9, 2009 11:34:10 GMT 1
I'm no media buff (hardly watch any TV nowadays), but I am amused by allusions/references which I recognise - and when they're used occasionally. There's only one ME fanfic which takes the mickey; even though the author does credit his/her sources, the references are still excessive. There are other elements which I'm not keen on, but nevermind that. Don't worry; the author is none of you.
By reading fanfic and stories, I've thought "Wow. That was effective and beautifully written" and felt inspired by the many ideas it can generate and how I can play with the scenarios between characters. It would make me feel cheap and lazy to lift snippets from other authors work, so I've never done it. Besides, some fanfic authors are very keen-eyed and aware; they do pick up on plagiarism.
I've seen a paragraph from my fanfic lifted and reworded slightly... which was annoying. Yes, Saren was a difficult character to pin down with what little we knew of him, but couldn't you at least develop your own thoughts and imagine how other characters might see him? Gah.
I think homages are fine when you give credit and when they are used with careful precision.
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