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Racism
Jun 22, 2013 5:29:58 GMT 1
Post by Cali on Jun 22, 2013 5:29:58 GMT 1
Uggghhhhh....
I wonder if this guy will ever come to the realization that doing what he does just CONTRIBUTES TO THE PROBLEM, and doesn't solve it. I really don't know if I can even hope to begin to sympathize with the lad or not, given some of his bumper stickers and one or two of the books on his dorm bookshelf. I suppose even with those, I can be impressed by his aptitude to remain reasonable and collected with his opinions during the interviews, but that's usually how most White Nationalist/Neo-Nazi/Whatever racist personality cultists start out. The guy is entitled to his rights to free thought and free speech, but there's no kidding he's off his knock. His implication of support for eugenics is fucking abhorrent (thinking that whites and asians by default have higher IQ's than blacks or hispanics), and even though he's clearly "NOT RACIST" everyone knows better. The least people like him could do is set an example and not become the thing he hates (I'm not talking racial denomination here, but of him being racially inclined; I'm alluding to a famous Nietzsche quote, and you all probably know what it is).
I know it's fairly new (at least in the mainstream) but the whole "white people suffer more than anybody else" phenomenon is already starting to be old hat as fuck right now. So unless these people can put aside their victim complexes and SET AN EXAMPLE by acting like rational and decent human beings instead of jingoistic racists and xenophobes (folks may say I'm naive, but I really don't think IT'S THAT HARD to act rationally and treat people as normal human beings, mainly because I've never had any trouble with it). I've never had any pride for my race, not because I had some self-disposition towards whites, but because of all these:
1. White people in America come in so many ethnic, cultural, and historical varieties: Irish, Anglo, Scottish, French, Swedish, Bulgarian, Italian, Romanian, Sicilian, Norwegian, Greek, Ukrainian, Russian, Polish, Hungarian, Welsh, Portuguese, Danish... MOTHER OF FRICK do I have to go on any longer than this? There's also the argument whether or not if Hispanics are technically a race or ethnic group, so that'd possibly leave room for other cultures and nationalities such as Mexican, Venezuelan, Porto Rican, El Salvadorian, Guatemalan... FOR FUCKS SAKE, YOU GET THE PICTURE? I already spend so much time loving being Irish (as well as part Welsh) that I just can't bother to give a rat's knickers about how my pigment defines me.
2. The fact that there's so many white people in North America that it negates any need for white nationalism. See above for further enhancement.
3. That race is just a skin deep thing, but many people just aren't going to put that aside, are they? This goes for everyone; I know you won't by just me stating this, but I'm gonna say it anyway; just stop, just freakin' stop.
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Racism
Jun 22, 2013 5:33:26 GMT 1
Post by CAPT Issac R. Madden on Jun 22, 2013 5:33:26 GMT 1
Not to start an argument, but being of a non-white race appears let one get away with a fuck-ton more shit in the mainstream public eye than one would be able to get away with if one were white.
Any time I argue against someone who isn't white, I'm automatically racist, no matter the basis of my argument.
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Racism
Jun 22, 2013 5:37:44 GMT 1
Post by Cali on Jun 22, 2013 5:37:44 GMT 1
Not to start an argument, but being of a non-white race appears let one get away with a fuck-ton more shit in the mainstream public eye than one would be able to get away with if one were white. Any time I argue against someone who isn't white, I'm automatically racist, no matter the basis of my argument. I am wondering about the circumstances here, as to what started these arguments and what they were about. I'm not marginalizing bullshit behavior regardless of race, but I am often curious about these things.
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Racism
Jun 22, 2013 5:42:39 GMT 1
Post by CAPT Issac R. Madden on Jun 22, 2013 5:42:39 GMT 1
Ok. I argue against Obama's policies, I'm called "racist". I point out that Zimmerman down in Florida likely acted in self-defense based on the evidence available, I'm a "racist". I point out that affirmative action is more hindrance than benefit and cite Clarance Thomas as an example, he gets called "Uncle Tom" and I get called "racist". I point out that gun control laws are rooted in the Jim Crow laws of the Old South, I'm a "facist" and a "racist". Point out that we're primarily fighting Islamic Extremists in GWOT? I'm a "racist warmongering, baby-killer". And that last bit is the more savory of adjectives I've dealt with face-to-face.
I deal with this shit constantly, so I may be biased, but I also can see how being a white male is a serious disadvantage at times depending on the powers that be.
This isn't even getting into the "white guilt" over slavery and other bullshit of the sort.
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Racism
Jun 22, 2013 6:19:17 GMT 1
Post by Cali on Jun 22, 2013 6:19:17 GMT 1
Ok. I argue against Obama's policies, I'm called "racist". Which you're not, and you shouldn't be, you're right. I don't agree, but it shouldn't be a condemnable opinion, so same as above. Debatable, yes, and I'm with you, but depending on who it was you argued with, I can see why they would see it to be skirting the lines of racism. Affirmative action is a target by the real, genuine racists of America (and so are the above two, but this one is usually a frontline issue that is talked about more in-depth, and not to mention, the first one usually comes from, then goes back down to this in arguments). Well, much evidence suggests they indeed were implemented in that regard, so I see no issue, and am indefinitely puzzled as to why you were labeled as such. Yeah? I'm wondering how often you DO deal with stuff like this. I'd be pissed to, but I also need to remind you that internet arguments REALLY shouldn't count, especially on YouTube and other troll-bait cesspits. In other words, I do want to know how often you deal with this stuff in real life. I agree. I shouldn't be feeling guilty over something wealthy American whites of old were responsible for, but was a pretty fucked up time that would be a malignant venality if we were to forget it and disregard it entirely. But I'm sure you, and many others know that.
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Racism
Jun 22, 2013 10:58:46 GMT 1
Post by Mister Buch on Jun 22, 2013 10:58:46 GMT 1
Oh IRON, oh Iron, oh Iron........... sometimes this site makes me want to drown myself.
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Racism
Jun 22, 2013 12:16:57 GMT 1
Cali likes this
Post by Mr. Glow on Jun 22, 2013 12:16:57 GMT 1
I too am a bit miffed at this forum's transformation from a fun place to post and have a laugh, into a big political circlejerk where everyone posts their opinions and tries to make the others believe they're right.
Can't you guys just leave it at the door like I do? You could just post it to /pol/ or r/politics or whatever. Get it out of your systems, and leave MEFF for good times.
I'm out.
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Racism
Jun 22, 2013 12:26:58 GMT 1
Post by jklinders on Jun 22, 2013 12:26:58 GMT 1
I'm not counting anyone here among those but an astonishing amount of Obama hate especially in his first term when he had little track record to work off of was racially based. One incident that sticks to mind was when cops arrested a man for breaking into his own home even after he showed them ID that showed he lived there. The man was black and he alleged (I'd say validly) that it was because he was black. Obama stated that the cops acted "stupidly." The shit he took for having the temerity to have an opinion on the matter was ridiculous. I saw some pretty off the wall and histrionic political cartoons about cops ignoring crime because they didn't want the president to call them stupid. Well guess what? It was stupid to arrest a man for breaking into his own home.
Which is worse BTW, being called a racist for disagreeing with Obama's policies and ideas (whether it's true or not) or being called a traitor for disagreeing with his predecessor's ideas and policies? because that happened too.
I disagree wholeheartedly that Non whites "get away with things" that whites don't. Less than 20 minutes drive from where I type this less than ten years ago a prominent professional boxer who lived here was pulled over and arrested. His crime? Driving an expensive car in Cole Harbour. It case to light that police actions were wholly unjustified and it was a clear cut case of driving while black.
Now, on the topic of that video. There is nothing positive whatsoever to be had from doing this. He is one smarmy little fucker. The guy is so blinded by his racism that he is incapable of understanding how racist he is being. We will be reading about him in 10 years after he commits a terrible atrocity in the name of his fictional race war if he is not watched.
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Racism
Jun 22, 2013 13:19:12 GMT 1
Cali likes this
Post by Warhammer Gorvar on Jun 22, 2013 13:19:12 GMT 1
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Racism
Jun 22, 2013 14:37:06 GMT 1
Post by Lily Ariel Linders on Jun 22, 2013 14:37:06 GMT 1
I think the term "racist" gets bandied about way to often. Gods forbid anyone have an opinion - and if said opinion happens to differ from someone else's, and the two are of a different race, then one is automatically called racist - it pisses me off.
A person can disagree with Obama's policies and not be racist - just like a person can disagree with Bush's policies and not be a traitor. I think this whole "traitor" and "racist" name-calling thing is just another form of bullying, and an attempt to shame a person for their own opinions.
As for the Zimmerman thing, I have to wonder how it was self defence when the poor kid had soda and skittles in his pockets, and not a gun or other weapon? Also - evidence does suggest Zimmerman stalked him a bit before going after him - against the 911 operator's direction, I might add - he called to report this kid for "walking suspiciously" and the operator told him to wait for the police - but no, he went after the kid anyway. Now, that is all I know about that case, but... I do fail to see the self defence on Zimmerman's side there... though I do see the self defence on Martin's side... who wouldn't try to defend themselves when they are being stalked and harassed?
Anyway, back to my original point - I myself have been falsely accused of being racist in junior high school, when someone who was bullying me (they were black) decided to use that excuse after I said I hate them... I was being bullied, I said "I hate you for treating me like this" and they accuse me of being racist. I may be white, but I have numerous relatives who are black and mixed due to marriage and adoption, and when I was a small child, I honestly did not understand what skin color meant.
TO put that last statement in context, my mother and three of her four sisters (and her brother) are very white - pale skin and fair hair (though one aunt has jet-black hair), and their adopted sister is black. My grandmother ran a foster care service when my mother and her sisters were children, and she officially adopted one little girl who happened to be black. So, years later, when I myself was a child (and I am also adopted) and my mother asked me if I knew what adopted meant and I said "Yes, it means I am yours but you did not give birth to me. You chose me." and she said "Right, and one of my sisters is also adopted - can you guess who?" and I said (quite innocently) that it must have been her second-youngest sister, because her skin was lighter than the others and she had more freckles, and she was blonde instead of light brown or dark hair. It never occurred to me that my aunt who had dark brown skin might not be biologically my mother's sister by birth.
And to this day, I still will never understand how skin tone makes a person different than other people. I honestly believe that all people are people, and minor differences in skin color, gender identity, lifestyles, etc. are just that - minor differences. Should not matter.
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Racism
Jun 22, 2013 14:59:51 GMT 1
Post by Mister Buch on Jun 22, 2013 14:59:51 GMT 1
I too am a bit miffed at this forum's transformation from a fun place to post and have a laugh, into a big political circlejerk where everyone posts their opinions and tries to make the others believe they're right. Can't you guys just leave it at the door like I do? You could just post it to /pol/ or r/politics or whatever. Get it out of your systems, and leave MEFF for good times. I'm out. I think some of us find leaving it at the door extremely hard, but good point. I'm trying to shut up, I really am. But I worry because when I say nothing then things I can't stand reading just mount up and up and up with nothing to oppose them.
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Racism
Jun 22, 2013 15:09:07 GMT 1
Post by CAPT Issac R. Madden on Jun 22, 2013 15:09:07 GMT 1
Here's what happened with Zimmerman. He's on neighborhood watch in a closed community that's had a rash of break-ins. He sees someone who doesn't belong and he thinks is acting suspicious. He gets stupid and gets out of the car so he can get a better look at the person in question and relay to the police said person's movements. The dispatcher tells him to break it off, and he does. Next thing he knows, he's getting jumped and having his head sandwiched between his attacker's fists and the concrete of the sidewalk over and over. He can't throw his attacker off of him and he starts getting afraid/panicking. He manages to get a shot off and the shot ends the fight, killing his attacker.
Now, Martin was unarmed, however delivering a ground-and-pound with no sign of letting up can very easily kill someone for one. Two, Martin had pretty long record with the cops, several of those entries involved beating the hell out of someone and breaking and entering (Zimmerman wouldn't know that, however it does do a lot to take away from the "Martin was a perfect angel" bit the media was throwing around along with pics of him that were several years old). Three, from what his family said, Martin had made it to his father's house. And yet Zimmerman was attacked 2, 3 minutes walk away from said house. Four, aside from the gun shot wound, the only other injuries on Martin were on his knuckles which when combined with the injuries Zimmerman had when the cops arrived on scene makes the ground-and-pound look much more plausible. Five, toxicology reports state that Martin had pretty elevated levels of THC (weed) in his system (Zimmerman said on the phone that the person he was following "looked high").
On the other hand, Zimmerman was an idiot for getting out of the car, but that in itself is not a crime. Following someone is not a crime. Some of the things he's done after the fact are pretty fucking stupid (trying to hide his financial resources while in custody), but if there's any hard evidence that disproves Zimmerman's side of the story, it hasn't come to light to the best of my knowledge.
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Racism
Jun 22, 2013 15:10:06 GMT 1
Post by CAPT Issac R. Madden on Jun 22, 2013 15:10:06 GMT 1
And I'll just leave that as my last post in this thread. No sense in keeping it going when it's causing more problems than anything else.
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Racism
Jun 22, 2013 16:17:48 GMT 1
Post by Clint Johnston on Jun 22, 2013 16:17:48 GMT 1
Odd. My post that Linders was replying to disappeared. That guy wasn't arrested for breaking in, he was arrested for being a complete idiot when the cops showed up. He didn't calmly turn to the officers and say, "Oh Hello Officers, we're having a bit of a problem getting in after my trip, I locked myself out." No, he went on a hyper offended rant about white racist police officers. Which doesn't help one's case when one is doing something that LOOKS illegal. So I don't think the officer's actions were "stupid." Furthermore I read several articles from various sources at the time about Officer Crowley, and he never made one racist comment or even a negative one about Prof Gates. He just went out to do his job, and someone who appeared to be doing a crime berated him for catching them in the act.
Zimmerman's case is a bit more complicated. A) It's not been decided in court yet. B) There's obviously more to the story on both sides. Martin wasn't as innocent as first appeared, and Zimmerman wasn't as righteous as he makes out. He should have done what he was told and let the kid alone. With that ship sailed, he intimidated Martin, who quite naturally confronted him. The Sticky part is whether Zimmerman used this confrontation as an excuse to pull his weapon, or whether Martin was so aggressive about the confrontation that he was forced to. Only God and he know the truth about this, and he'll get justice eventually, even if it's not on this earth.
Glow - Lay off it, man. If you don't want to talk about difficult topics, why click the link to open the "Racism" thread in the "Politics" section? It's like you're the blonde chick in a horror flick. "<---- Safety - Certain Doom ---->" While I think we're not listening as much as we are talking in these threads (I try not to do this, but I'm sure I have) the fact is we are talking about important elements of our lives. You don't want to focus on this topic? Don't click the link! There's a "Mark forum read" button you can use so the notification that people are bickering doesn't even have to bother you.
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Racism
Jun 23, 2013 0:24:11 GMT 1
Post by Cali on Jun 23, 2013 0:24:11 GMT 1
I hate to cop out so sharply, but Glow has a point, Clint. The thing is, when we talk (or in some cases, argue) politics on here, we're not actually doing anything to assuage or remedy the issues, unless we actually do them.
To be honest, I'm probably just going to stick with real life when it comes to political discussions, because believe it or not, I just find it easier and it's usually more friendly, even when seriously arguing with people in real life (or maybe it's just the fact that I'm 6.7 and nobody would even think of starting a physical altercation with me).
Mainly the reason I do bring up politics occasionally is just because I'm pretty curious about what people on here think, but everyone here is a bit too predictable in their opinions, and it seems nothing anyone says will convince or change each other opinions. Really, there's a huge dead horse, and it's being beaten savagely.
So yeah, I'm out, too.
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