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Post by Mister Buch on Jul 3, 2012 0:36:05 GMT 1
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Post by opteronium on Jul 3, 2012 8:38:18 GMT 1
And the Reaper motives... I don't wanna get jklinders riled up, but then again I kinda do. It all kinda calls into question: what the hell was Harbinger trying to do in ME2, anyway? They were making a human Reaper at the end of ME3, anyway, and they would've succeeded in creating it had it not been for Sovereign and Harbinger. The Qui-Gon Jinn of Reapers. xD Well it makes sense that if plan A fails, you switch to plan B. But harvesting all sentient life... I really dont get why Harbinger and his collector minions have a thing for humans in ME2 if all civilizations are on their wishlist... in ME3. As for Sovereign... I rather not think of it from ME3 perspective. If you look back on Sovereign from ME3, he was an appetizer for Shepard. ME3's ending fails to tie all this stuff together. Appears to me that the best ending to ME would be ME2... Sovereign's defeated so Reapers fall back to Harbinger who controls whats left of the Protheans and tries to build another Reaper that can do what Sovereign was supposed to do. Shepard stops that, the rest of the Reapers are stuck outside the galaxy, game over.
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Post by Hodster on Jul 3, 2012 23:46:36 GMT 1
The Catalyst should've just been a big space gun, honestly. Would've made things simpler. xD Thats what I've been saying! Like a colony laser from Gundam. They never explained why the Reapers never needed the Citadel relay to get here.If they never needed it why was Sovereign needed. Sovereign had a purpose in ME 1. He was the gatekeeper. He had a hard job because the protheans changed the locks. The writers forgot a lot since the first game. Why didn't the Reapers beeline for the Citadel and take control of the relays. That was always the key to their effortless victories. Isolate the clusters and conquer them piecemeal. After the Citadel was seized in ME 3 that should have been it. No more travel across the galaxy. The Victory fleet should have been stranded. Yeah I always thought that Reapers would go for the Citadel first so they could turn off the Relays. Or switch them to a different mode like the Omega 4 Relay, that way only Reapers could use them :/ Refuse is still my favorite ending.
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Aerecura
Commander
Calliope Queen
Posts: 244
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Post by Aerecura on Jul 4, 2012 0:59:47 GMT 1
I have to ask - why is refuse your favorite ending? To me, it was basically just Shepard giving the finger to the galaxy for no reason other than being an iconoclast. He/she got a nice speech at the end there, but it doesn't mitigate the fact that all sentients in that cycle died needlessly...
(Although of course I do like the idea of shooting the Starchild in the face, even if I would never have picked it ;D )
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Post by Mr. Glow on Jul 4, 2012 2:55:57 GMT 1
I view it more as Shepard (and the player) giving the finger to the Catalyst (and BioWare) and rejecting any of the options put forward due to them all being unfair/creepy/not solutions. Sure, everyone in the current cycle dies, but the next one wins, and not on the Reaper's terms.
If you want to fit it into Buch's Prometheus analogy, the humans reject the gods entirely, and suffer a few biblical plagues for it, but they eventually learn about fire themselves and the cycle is truly broken.
But hey, my favourite ending to Deus Ex: Human Revolution was the Pangaea one, which is actually pretty similar to Refuse.
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Post by Mister Buch on Jul 4, 2012 3:01:40 GMT 1
The Prometheus analogy isn't really mine -- 'Protheans' was an obvious reference from the opening scenes of Mass Effect 1.
But well put - that makes a lot of sense.
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Aerecura
Commander
Calliope Queen
Posts: 244
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Post by Aerecura on Jul 4, 2012 3:31:07 GMT 1
Hmm. Maybe I'm wrong (and it is quite possible that I am) but I thought that the next cycle would still have to use the Catalyst since that's what a lot of Liara's information pertained to, thus choosing either control, destroy, or synthesis? Or does the refuse ending imply that the next cycle somehow pre-empts the Reapers? (Sounds very difficult but I suppose it could be done.)
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Post by Mr. Glow on Jul 4, 2012 3:38:05 GMT 1
I just assumed they got the information tens of thousands of years earlier in the Cycle than Shepard got the beacon on Eden Prime and had a lot of time to beef up their defences.
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Aerecura
Commander
Calliope Queen
Posts: 244
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Post by Aerecura on Jul 4, 2012 3:54:23 GMT 1
That is a good point. Actually, this article explains it really well. I still don't like the idea of wiping out millions of beings regardless of what cycle they're from, but I do see where this ending's coming from now. Although I think we can all agree that this should really have just been made an ending. Would've been the best one, undoubtedly.
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Post by Clint Johnston on Jul 4, 2012 5:49:37 GMT 1
Played through Synthesis today. Have to do my entire female renegade playthrough before I see refuse, unless I break down and youtube it.
So far I think my favorite is Control & Shreaper, aside from the fact that Shepard might still be alive at the end of destroy. Green Eyed Krogan are just freaky.
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Post by lieden on Jul 4, 2012 6:53:55 GMT 1
One thing probably worth noting about Synthesis: In ME2, EDI very emphatically describes Reapers as both synthetic and organic - not purely synthetic. So in the green ending they all became a fusion of synthetic and organic and there was much rejoicing.
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Post by jklinders on Jul 4, 2012 12:45:22 GMT 1
One thing probably worth noting about Synthesis: In ME2, EDI very emphatically describes Reapers as both synthetic and organic - not purely synthetic. So in the green ending they all became a fusion of synthetic and organic and there was much rejoicing. Yeah, it's kinda like "mission accomplished" for the reapers really.
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Post by Hodster on Jul 4, 2012 17:45:13 GMT 1
Glow pretty much said why I like the Refuse ending the best. But I'll quote myself from a few pages back since I don't feel like typing it out And Reject, it is a sad sorta downer ending. You die the battle at earth is lost and for the next however many years the Reapers harvest the galaxy and the Cycle continues. But Liara probably spent the rest of her life, with the help of many others probably, made the Archives which told the story of Shepard and their Cycle and gave as much information they could on the reapers in order to help the next cycle. This information not only helps the next cycle but Shepard seems to have inspired the next cycle to be ready against the reapers. From what I got from the after credits thing in the reject ending on the winter space world is that because of the Archives they actually won and beat the reapers and broke the cycle. And the fact that my Shepard inspired and helped them beat the reapers is just amazing. And Liara did say that the Catalyst DID NOT WORK! It is possible that they did use it and just improved it a lot but I don't think so. I think the Archives are full of basically the stories of both Shepard's cycle and the Protheans cycle and their struggles against the reapers and of course a lot of information on advanced tech in order to help the next cycle.
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Post by Warhammer Gorvar on Jul 9, 2012 11:47:26 GMT 1
Chances are the next cycle used destroy the moment the Reapers came back, with Shepard becoming the patron saint of the universe. Makes you wonder if his compagnions also get cults after them...like Grunt becoming the patron saint of food or Mordin the one of science.
Also I would've prefered to see my war assets at work at refuse. Basiacly a big slug out match that even the Reapers are very damaged if they win. Sort of like Episode VI with Luke and the Emperor watching the Battle for Endor.
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Post by jklinders on Jul 9, 2012 21:49:37 GMT 1
The catalyst not working is about all Liara would have known. I was pretty disappointed that a Diablus ex MAchina was the only way to stop the Reapers.
Liara's time capsule seems to only have the crucible plans. I don't really see the next cycle being successful with the same trick now that Starbrat knows about it for sure. Unless he wants you to use it. Synthesis remains his ultimate goal methinks. the other outcomes only delay it. According to the writers that is.
BAH!
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