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Post by Mister Buch on Feb 20, 2010 1:02:20 GMT 1
I just saw this very funny little piece on Cracked.com - and I KNEW you all would enjoy it! Also what I really like is that after the little article, on the site's page there is a more detailed, less exxaggerated version. Like the author was having so much fun talking about Bioware's styles that he did it twice. Here's the full version - www.cracked.com/funny-3872-bioware/
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Post by yargling on Feb 20, 2010 2:02:11 GMT 1
I just read it and its pretty good, heh.
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Post by Mr. Glow on Feb 20, 2010 2:43:05 GMT 1
That article is spot on.
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Post by Hodster on Feb 20, 2010 3:46:14 GMT 1
Lol loved it!
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Post by Knightfall on Feb 20, 2010 4:31:18 GMT 1
Need one more blue girl for a full house over here.
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Post by Tillian Panthesis on Feb 20, 2010 15:11:56 GMT 1
Hah. Quite spot on and managed to laugh out loud enough I probably pissed my dad off again in the middle of the night.
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Post by jklinders on Feb 23, 2010 18:03:19 GMT 1
Heh, I use for descriptive purposes on alignment, reincarnation of mother Theresa and Chuthulu eater of kittens. That's really how Bioware morality breaks down even if they are getting a little better at the middle ground stuff.
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Post by Tillian Panthesis on Feb 24, 2010 10:37:06 GMT 1
They are getting better, it takes time.
Actually in retrospect, their alignment for the middle ground was a whole heap better than Fable 1 and 2. Really. And also some of the JRPGs are so blantant with their storytelling and characterisation nowdays.
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Post by Mister Buch on Feb 24, 2010 14:19:57 GMT 1
I worry about the morals becoming TOO grey and ambiguous, you know.
Mass Effect, I think, is just starting to cross the line of how much complexity and agonising I like. At least for a game primarily concerned with shooting robots / insect-men.
I have always liked the way Bioware does things, regarding morality. And I think it's appropriateness varies between games:
Their Cthulu/Theresa scale was an absolutel PERFECT fit for Knights of the Old Republic. It felt RIGHT to save orphans and conquer planets in that game, because it was Star Wars. That's what you should be doing - good vs evil.
In Jade Empire they used almost the exact same system as KotOR and it fit a little more awkwardly. In Mass Effect 1 and 2 they adapted it quite nicely to make the good less good and the evil less evil. I think ME2 has a beautiful 'evil' character (they reeeeally nailed the Renegade options this time), and ME1 has Bioware's most enjoyable 'good' dialogue (being a tough politcal idealist and inspiring leader, earning the loyalty of a diverse crew as I yell at them for being racist and choose who lives and dies... felt amazing).
I think what I was trying to say here, is - hey, Bioware do great with this! Particularly with Mass Effect. Also - the context of the game's plot and setting is important.
Definitely a good idea to compare any Bioware game with Fable 1 or 2 - where you are quickly given a Halo or devil-horns depending on how many random murders your silent protagonist commits on his way to the teleporter.
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Post by Tillian Panthesis on Feb 24, 2010 16:59:24 GMT 1
Ugh! I loathed the morality system in the fable series. The worlds and decisions you make in the Fable series are too overtly simplistic and righeous at times. Not only the halo thing and the horns thing were overtly ridiculous but also some of the outcomes in your choices are kinda shoved in are either good or bad. Like the holy light temple, where you have to continue to let the monks at the temple to be ignorant at the whole worshiping thing and this supposed to be a good thing? Even Hammer lampshaded how the monks were completely nutty over the supersitious thing.
Although Fable 2 have some dilema moments, like the tower secton where you either have to feed the guy and get punsihed badly or let him suffer and get bad points, etc, etc. IT still doesn't hold a candle to other RPGs are have more complexity in the moral choices. Even Fallout 3 beats the Fable series at that part. The climax point in the Pitt DLC is a great example.
One thing I like the morality system in Mass Effect is they don't subtract the points away for choosing either a paragon or a renegade choice. So basicly I can still backstab and Sparta kick at people just to get the job done effectiently while still maintaining my idealistic "let's-protect-the-innocent" stance. Paragon and Renegade choices are still skirting on the borderlines between good and evil but unlike most morality alignments in other RPGS, Both Paragon and Renegade are not the definate stance of being an absolute martyr-wannabe nor a try hard evil overlord who acts being a dick for the sake of being a dick. Either way both alignments leads to becoming a hero of some sort, except the renegade is more the "anti-hero" sort.
Funny enough, I cannot helped but thinking the Paragon is a little too idealistic at times. Let's put it this way. If there's a character that is equivalent to Bodishiva, except she starts to wield assault riffles and guns down baddies with karma fury, that character would be FemShep. Yes, that's how I think about the Paragon alignment in ME series so far. Can't say it's a bad thing, it's kinda fun to act like larger than life once in a while.
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Post by Mister Buch on Mar 1, 2010 14:01:40 GMT 1
Fable 2 was a big improvement on Fable 1, inso many ways. Definitely story and morality were among them. I love Fable 2. It's not trying to be a story. It's a bit of fun, with decapitation-pistols and Stephen Fry and Dickensian zombies. RPG lite.
I love it.
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Post by jklinders on Mar 2, 2010 14:15:35 GMT 1
I actually think they may have nailed it in Mass Effect for the morality. There are times when renegade equals simply being a cretin. But most of the time it is simply the more forceful/pragmatic approach to problem solving. Most of the renegade interrupts are perfect for a "good guy " to do without losing his white hat. i like that, lets me play the character a little more real rather than "Lawful stupid"
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Post by moonlight on Mar 5, 2010 21:14:55 GMT 1
The article is mostly spot-on, if not for Wrex and Jack. I don't think he really falls into the 'Murderous Sociopath' trope of BioWare games, especially since Jack is right around the corner from that. I would of basically listed Miranda as the bitch and Jack under 'murderous socipath', though I guess that's just me. Wrex defies the standards set forward by this particular chart, I do believe.
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Post by Mister Buch on Mar 6, 2010 12:07:03 GMT 1
I agree - Wrex isn't crazy. He's not there constantly telling you to kill things. In fact on Virmire, it's quite the opposite.
But I will say Wrex belongs to the 'large, honour-bound foreign clansman' Bioware tradition! Also known as 'The Sten' or 'Canderous Mark V'.
Also - welcome Moonlight!
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Post by jklinders on Mar 6, 2010 14:47:27 GMT 1
I agree - Wrex isn't crazy. He's not there constantly telling you to kill things. In fact on Virmire, it's quite the opposite. But I will say Wrex belongs to the 'large, honour-bound foreign clansman' Bioware tradition! Also known as 'The Sten' or 'Canderous Mark V'. Also - welcome Moonlight! Actually the only real sociopaths that Bioware has written(that I have seen) are Black Whirlwind and HK-47. But both were really entertaining. Leaving me wondering why the most murderous people seem like the ones you would actually want to party with. Somehow I don't think it works that way in real life. Especially after Black Whirlwind has had a few drinks.
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