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Post by CAPT Issac R. Madden on Oct 28, 2012 19:24:47 GMT 1
I figured it was time to come up with a dedicated thread to regarding one of the issues that is guarenteed to set me off.
I know I've stated this before, but I'll try to bring together my thoughts on this subject as consisely as I can.
Civilian gun ownership, to me is a serious positive. The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. So why not maximise the number of good guys with guns?
In the US, there are more guns than people. Assuming that guns kill people and are dangerous in and of themselves, then the USA should be extinct by now. This is not the case.
Contrary to what most people think, allowing the common person to be armed and make them responsible for their own defense is quite PROGRESSIVE instead of CONSERVATIVE.
Think about this: those who wish to consolidate their power will revert to proven methods. Among these are siezing privately-owned arms followed by restrictions on free speech, and so on.
This has been repeated ad nauseum for millenia. In feudal Japan, if a common person had so much as a knife, they were executed. In more recent times, after Kristallnacht, Hitler barred the Jews from owning weapons under pain of death. Musolinni and Stalin had similar laws.
Let us look at countries where arms are common outside of the USA. Namely Swutzerland and Israel. Swiss law mandates that all able-bodied men within a certain age bracket are part of the military's reserves and thus are required to maintain proficiency with their weapons at all times. Very little crime there, especially when everyone owns a full-blown assault rifle and knows how to use it.
In Israel, the threat of terror attacks is common, but overall violent crime is low when you account for terrorism.
Two countries with guns everywhere and little violent crime? Not what I would call a coincidence.
Now I'm not saying everyone should be required to own a gun. I'm just saying everyone should have the option to do so if they so wish,
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Post by Lily Ariel Linders on Oct 28, 2012 19:45:56 GMT 1
I do agree that people should be allowed to have the option to own a gun if they wish, but if and only if they can pass tests to prove they will not misuse said gun.
What worries me about civilian gun ownership is not the gun itself, it's the possibility that it might be in the hands of someone who would use it for unpleasantness such as armed robbery, home invasion, etc.
On the topic of home invasion, though, I do agree that it might possibly be somewhat safer for the homeowner if they have a gun - that might result in less innocent deaths.
I will admit that I know next to nothing about gun laws and gun ownerships in other countries, and not much more than that when it comes to Canadian gun law, so I can only speak mostly in the hypothetical. But I think civilian gun ownership should be only accessible through rigorous testing on personality and intent.
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Post by Clint Johnston on Oct 28, 2012 21:15:34 GMT 1
Iron, are you trying to make Buch WANT to buy a gun?
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Post by Nord Ronnoc on Oct 28, 2012 21:40:24 GMT 1
Iron, are you trying to make Buch WANT to buy a gun? Apprently, yes. AMERICA!
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Post by jklinders on Oct 28, 2012 21:40:52 GMT 1
I have observed from the start that the problem with "gun violence" in the US has more to do with it's proximity to the drug nations of the Caribbean and Mexico than anything else.
I otherwise do not have enough personal passion about the issue to really get up in arms about as long as:
1) Completion of a certified training maintenance and gun handling course is required to purchase a weapon and
2)People convicted of violent crime are prohibited from legally purchasing firearms unless they are able to secure a pardon.
Otherwise carry on.
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Post by Warhammer Gorvar on Oct 28, 2012 21:53:50 GMT 1
Iron, are you trying to make Buch WANT to buy a gun? i half expect the events from Hot Fuzz to happen when buch gets a gun.
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Post by Mister Buch on Oct 28, 2012 23:09:47 GMT 1
I'm going to buy a gun and shoot myself with it right now! Thanks, Iron.
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Post by Lily Ariel Linders on Oct 29, 2012 0:53:16 GMT 1
Please don't, Mister Buch - we'd miss you terribly... *batting eyelashes in an overly-dramatic fashion* ;D
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Post by Cali on Oct 29, 2012 1:02:00 GMT 1
I'm going to buy a gun and shoot myself with it right now! Thanks, Iron. It's been at least five minutes and I'm still laughing. Jklinders may be the "Great White Snark" of the forum, but Buch still comes at quite the close second. Anyhow, I'm in full support of the second amendment, though I'm kind of thoroughly annoyed with gun owner culture, with the NRA horseshit and all that. Ever since Charlton Heston passed away, and somebody else took over, I've always found that the NRA kind of actively encourages it's members to act like complete paranoid retards. Taking photos of themselves brandishing assault weapons in woodland oakie style camo on their patios, and posting it on Facebook in the same album they have the photos of them making hollow point ammunition in their basements, it's just erroneously loutish and low brow. It's really easy to tell some these loons are obviously trying to compensate for something. Just my opinion though. I know everybody needs a hobby, but I think guns should be talked about as minimally as possible. Kind of like sex. Except with sex, you're not trying to kill the other person .........most of the time............ So it makes it all the more awkward for someone to start sperging about his collection of all the 1911 models or an illegally modified assault weapon he managed to snag (but still believes it's his gawd given raght!) Still, I can look at the stats and and safely believe that legal gun ownership does have some positive effect on home safety and crime in general. I'm currently the fresh owner of an old Astra Constable chambered in .380 ACP that my uncle gave me. It's an old Spanish handgun which hasn't seen production in about twenty years and is more or less a ripoff of the Walther PP(K) series that James Bond made famous. I haven't touched the thing since I got it, and never keep it loaded (I told him I didn't want any of the ammo, at least not yet) or plan on taking it out of the house, seeing how the license is still technically under my uncle's, and if my kumbaya super liberal former hippie of a mother finds I have it out I'll never hear the end of it. ;D
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Post by Mr. Glow on Oct 29, 2012 1:10:17 GMT 1
It is kind of impressive when you can invoke Godwin's Law on the first post of an internet discussion.
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Post by Cali on Oct 29, 2012 1:19:10 GMT 1
Well it counts a lot less considering it was the first post, right? I think.
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Post by Lily Ariel Linders on Oct 29, 2012 1:41:44 GMT 1
I'm going to buy a gun and shoot myself with it right now! Thanks, Iron. It's been at least five minutes and I'm still laughing. Jklinders may be the "Great White Snark" of the forum, but Buch still comes at quite the close second. Ooh, ooh! I love it! Great White Snark! So true, JK Linders' snarkiness is what I fell for in the beginning... he's also known around our apartment as The Lord of Sarcasm... ;D or, otherwise known as "His Sarcasticness" *does an exaggerated bow towards Linders*I know everybody needs a hobby, but I think guns should be talked about as minimally as possible. Kind of like sex. Except with sex, you're not trying to kill the other person .........most of the time............ *raises eyebrows* Wow, you're pretty impressively snarky there, yourself! Nice going!
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Post by jklinders on Oct 29, 2012 2:03:53 GMT 1
Well it counts a lot less considering it was the first post, right? I think. Pretty sure you can't Godwin your own thread on the first post. Besides, there was a certain degree of relevance to the point made. I'd like to think Godwin's law was never intended to bar such comparisons from happening, just to discourage calling everyone you disagree with a nazi or Hitler.
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Post by Clint Johnston on Oct 29, 2012 6:07:42 GMT 1
I think Gun ownership is a good thing, provided one is responsible enough to use a weapon properly. Alas, there's no simple method to determine this, and every moron afraid of the aliens can buy one.
I don't think current gun control laws are successful or that any can ever be (complete rewrite is needed) because no matter what the law is, Criminals will have guns outside its purvey. Therefore Gun laws only restrict gun owners trying to do the right thing.
However, there needs to be some method of control because Escalation is not just a word in the dictionary. When everyone has guns, someone who wants power will be forced to make a more drastic demonstration of said power in order not to fall afoul of the populace. AKA, if a mugger who used knifes before is stopped by a gun owner, the next time he commits such a crime, he's going to have a piece. Leading to more accidental and deliberate gunshot wounds.
It's a tight line to walk, and I don't think there is any easy answer. My father was a devoted Gun user who was very responsible and insisted several of his weapons be laid aside for each of his kids. I have trained with and can use them, but I choose to leave them in a safe for the present. Perhaps when I have my own home/a family to protect I will bring them in.
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Post by Tillian Panthesis on Oct 29, 2012 12:23:43 GMT 1
I'm going to buy a gun and shoot myself with it right now! Thanks, Iron. It's been at least five minutes and I'm still laughing. Jklinders may be the "Great White Snark" of the forum, but Buch still comes at quite the close second. There's a reason why I'm still hanging around at this place.
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