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Post by Mister Buch on Jan 14, 2013 23:54:26 GMT 1
So I'm hearing that Zack Snyder (the legendary artist behind such modern classics as Sucker Punch, the Dawn of the Dead remake, Legend of the Guardians: The Owls of Ga'Hoole and the vapid, childlike, vaguely homophobic pile of arse that was 300) is being allowed to make a new Star Wars movie, set completely apart from the main story and based on the Seven Samurai. It will focus on Jedi with big boobs deflecting blaster bolts in slow motion and making fourth-grade-level acion hero lines for the trailer in an effort to look cool, but you won't be able to hear what they're saying over the loud Richard Cheese cover of a Slipknot song playing for its entirity at the climax of the movie. This news will probably raise strong opinions both in favour and opposed but I for one would like to shoot myself in the face at this moment. Seriously, I'm really starting to lose my patience with Star Wars now. It's like George Lucas has been trying solidly for twenty years to destroy his work. Make awful changes in a pointless edit and remove the originals, make awful prequels, make more awful changes (now with added Hayden Christensen), make awful comics, make even more awful changes in a third edit that now features Vader shouting 'Nooooo' ove my favourite moment, make awful retcons in games and comics and TV series... what's left? Is there seriously anything left at this point before we start on Indiana Jones 5? Give it to Zack Snyder. That ought to do it. After he's finished, Frank Miller and Ang bastard Lee can have a go, too. Maybe Stephanie Meyer can write them - she seems to be bankable. It's not like the original three films explored their premise very well or came across as particularly good. Might as well just keep piling increasingly unrelatable and unspeakable horrors on them until they vanish from memory. Rant. Rant. Rant. If Star Wars were a person I would now be divorcing it and leaving town so that I never had to bump into it and have that awkward conversation about how it was doing these days. "Oh I'm great - I'm actually engaged now, to Zack Snyder! Also I'm getting a swastika tattooed on my eyeballs, it's so cool." / "Ohhhh.... oh great... good for you!" Also have you ever googled 'Ahsoka Tano'? What the hell is wrong with people on the internet? I just had to look at a solid page of cartoon child porn.
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Post by jklinders on Jan 15, 2013 0:29:14 GMT 1
I stopped watching the Star Wars movies after the abomination that was Episode one came out. I got 10 minutes into Attack of the Clones before I realized it was going to be even worse and stopped. Is it a bad thing that my emotional investment into the franchises we grew up with is detached enough that I am not really mad about it? He's making different crap now. Since I now know that most of what was good about Star Wars came from a different person than Lucas and most of what Lucas brought in was pure plagiarism I really have a hard time caring.
So now Snyder steps up too the plate. His batting average with me is about .500. He's made good movies and he's made crap. He's also made at least one crap movie that I like. 300 was no masterwork but it was fun to watch. He can't do worse than the guy who brought us Jar Jar.
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Post by Mr. Glow on Jan 15, 2013 0:38:59 GMT 1
Seriously, how does this guy get to direct Star Wars and Superman films?
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Post by Warhammer Gorvar on Jan 15, 2013 0:46:16 GMT 1
I dont even know....
I dont even like Jedi! Gimme Clone Troopers or Smugglers or something! Hell i'm okay if its a group which consists of a Female Jedi, A handsome Smugler and his alien buddy, a couple of droids and some other dudes going up to save the universe from the Sith returning or the Yuuzhan Vong.
The hell is the plot about anyway?
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Post by Knightfall on Jan 15, 2013 1:18:09 GMT 1
Sorry you feel that way, Buch?
Lucas didn't exactly do right by the prequels, and this is pretty much common knowledge at this point. The Original Trilogy was a collaboration involving some of the most talented artists in the industry at the time (Leigh Brackett co-wrote the Empire Strikes Back script, after writing some amazing sci-fi novels and co-writing another screenplay based on a Raymond Chandler novel with William Faulkner). I think Lucas made the mistake in thinking the Original Trilogy was 99% his doing. It wasn't, and we can see the Prequel Trilogy as proof of this.
But Disney owns it now. Lucas literally has no say in how Star Wars is handled going forward. He has something in his contract that stipulates he can be an adviser, but that's about it. He has no creative control anymore. To me, this is a good thing. Lucas finished the story he wanted to tell - not as gracefully as he might have intended, but whatever. People truly passionate about the series can take it on now, and you're already seeing some crazy talented people stepping up to the plate to make this thing, who were previously ignored outright in favor of Lucas himself.
It's also a plus that Disney is handling things; their handling of The Avengers and the previous movies have been exemplary. They literally had no reason to give The Avengers to Joss Whedon; literally everything he's done has been cancelled or hasn't recouped its budget, and they gave him one of the most expensive films of all time, and they gave him full creative control. They know which people to take risks on, and they're willing to take a loss gracefully if they're wrong. (John Carter)
I think this is a great time for Star Wars. Disney won't sit on the property like Lucas did, and spend their spare time pushing it on kids and ignoring its potential. They've already enlisted the original screenwriter for the Original Trilogy and signed the original cast.
But that's all meaningless, because nothing's been filmed yet. Episode VII doesn't even have a director, and this Zack Snyder project is barely a rumor. I think it's way, waaaay too early for ranting, because Disney's still trying to figure out how to carry the series forward - and all evidence indicates that they're actively trying to not make the same mistakes Lucas did.
And as for the Zack Snyder project: if it's true, which I'm not convinced it is, I'm completely excited. He's a fantastic visual director, and can get some amazing performances out of his actors when the occasion calls for it. Building a Star Wars movie around something other than the Skywalker family is a fantastic idea. Taking one look at the EU, Star Wars is rife with fantastic story possibilities.
As for Zack Snyder himself, sorry you feel that way about him. Without Dawn of the Dead, I wouldn't be writing right now. It was my KotOR before KotOR. 300 and Watchmen also influenced me quite a bit, and are probably two of my favorites. When he works on a project, he pays an overwhelming amount of respect to the source material, and I think if he works on Star Wars, he'll do right by the story.
Sucker Punch, on the other hand, wasn't his strongest film, but it was still enjoyable. I give him points for trying something new. How many movies like The Expendables do we have with an all male cast, blowing shit up? Like a billion. How many movies with an all female cast do we have that don't center around romance in the big city? He tried to market something that's not marketable in our economy, and tried to make that point in the movie. He didn't make it very well, but, like I said, I give him points for putting actual thought into his movie - while Michael Bay signs a contract for another Transformers trilogy.
Also, Man of Steel looks positively amazing. If that movie somehow bombs, then I'll rethink my opinion on Star Wars. But until then, I think he deserves to be in the running.
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Post by Mister Buch on Jan 15, 2013 1:55:12 GMT 1
Ugh... I regretted that giant petulant rant pretty quickly. I was hoping I would get here to delete it before you read it, Knight! xD
I really do disagree with your opinions on these Snyder movies and Star Wars' future, I must say. And I'm very concerned that Man of Steel looks to be 'missing the point' of Superman the way I see it... but hell, you and me have different opinions on movies.
The new SW might be good. Marvel is doing well under Disney, that's true. I could afford to be a little optimistic sometimes. I just see so many bad movies like this, and after everything that Star Wars has put out lately, and my own particular dislike of Snyder's films, this one kind of flipped me. Watchmen was pretty good, and respectful. But still... I really doubt this will work. When has 'more films by more directors' ever improved a classic, or any film? That Hollywood process ruined Alien, Terminator, a lot of 80's movies I love. I see no purpose to more SW films beyond 'money for Disney'.
I think my thing with Star Wars is that the original three movies were SO good, and I feel as though every extra little bit (with the exceptions of KotOR 1 and a good few of the novels I've read) spoils that trilogy of films a little bit. It makes 'Star Wars' mean something other than what it should - that really good movie called 'Star Wars' and its two great sequels. I feel like everything added to the franchise detracts from the original three. Sometimes directly, such as where the prequels had retuning charcters and bad backstories (e.g. Anakin now built Threepio - that's a little tarnish on the originals that will never go away). That's my thing: the way the great high point seems to be getting lost as the Star Wars empire (pun) drops down bit by bit. I don't want Star Wars to get better, or to collect a huge reservoir of stories exploring a rich and diverse universe - I want it to be a really good three-movie story, made by a driven group of people with huge creativity and a vision and a passion for visual effects, about some heroes with diverse thematic influences defeating the space Nazis. Because when it was that, as it was when I was a kid (yeah probably clouded by nostalgia) it was really incredible and precious. And now its just a mudded, repetitive, hit-and-miss franchise. Its not a story, its a brand. The Avengers never really had a big high point (to me) - Disney are bulding beautifully upon something that I never really had any respect or love for - making a classic from a brand - so it seems different. To me. I'm sure people with different opinions on Marvel comics feel much differently there.
But yeah. Massive rant. I had a bad day today, got home and read this Snyder thing and decided to flip out. I certainly hope it's not true. I saw it on his Wikipedia.
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Post by Mister Buch on Jan 15, 2013 2:32:50 GMT 1
And one thing I have to say is that a film about the Jedi in their heydey, and based on a big Star Wars influence like a Kurasawa film, is exactly what I would have had them do. An unconnected movie in the same Universe sounds much less terrible to me than a direct sequel about Han and Leia's children or whathaveyou.
So if Snyder picked that premise, then I really respect his choice.
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Post by Clint Johnston on Jan 15, 2013 6:32:00 GMT 1
Personally, I've never had much craziness with Star Wars. Too many plot holes. And Ewoks. Yech. However, my favorite movie of all time is also based on the Seven Samurai (The Magnificent Seven), so if they don't stray too far from the source material, I'm in.
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Post by Knightfall on Jan 15, 2013 6:45:11 GMT 1
You don't have to delete anything, Buch! We have differing opinions, we duel it out, we carry on. Zack Snyder just happens to be "one of those people" who somehow inspired me, so I wanted to swing in and toss in my two cents. xD
I get your frustration. It sucks because I never really connected to Star Wars until the prequels were already out, so I don't have that perspective of having watched/loved the Original Trilogy like you have. But I do get how too many ancillary stories can suffocate a beloved tale. I'm thinking of Revan, in this case... >.<
But I personally think that a lot of that suffocation was due to Lucas and this empire he built on the story, his unwillingness to progress the story and his huge missteps when he finally did. Now that it's not under the creative control of one guy, I think we'll see a more respectful treatment of the stories. We might even see the Original Trilogy (minus Special Edition alterations) released on DVD or Blu Ray.
Maybe! These are all possibilities. I know that the public at large were not satisfied with Lucas's treatment of the Special Editions or the Prequels, and Disney may very well play into that. (Another maybe.) We might see some renewed veneration for the films, instead of Lucas's mad rush to fix what was never really broken. We've been lost in that rush for a while, it feels like.
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Post by Mr. Glow on Jan 15, 2013 10:58:15 GMT 1
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Post by Warhammer Gorvar on Jan 15, 2013 11:00:28 GMT 1
Gonna have to look up the plot for the Seven Samurai now... And what wasnt cool about the Avengers? I mean the moment the Hulk punched space snake in the face and iron Man blew it up it was the most epic shit i saw in ever!
Back on topic, the Clone Wars animated show...it;s actually gotten really good in Season 3 and they are actually doing a better job with forshadowing Order 66 and the rise of the Empire then in the prequels. Although im pissed off they neglected the Darkhorse comic book series so the Battle for Jabiim and Quinlan Vos Triple agent status stories never gets told. Then again both are pretty dark, and Quinlan and anakan actually KISS their love intrests! The horror!
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Post by jklinders on Jan 15, 2013 11:10:15 GMT 1
I might have seen The Seven Samurai when I was very young. I get the idea that they may have to scale it up a bit to fit the Star Wars criteria. It's a story that has been retold a few times in a bunch of different cultures so it can easily work. Don't count on too much faithfulness to the source material though.
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Post by Warhammer Gorvar on Jan 15, 2013 11:12:23 GMT 1
Wasnt episode IV taken directly from a Japanese story?
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Post by jklinders on Jan 15, 2013 11:53:21 GMT 1
The Hidden Fortress to be precise.
The script was also forced to be re-written a couple of times because Frank Herbert and his lawyers complained about similarities between the original script and Dune. Mostly in the setting as opposed to the storyline I think. I give credit to Lucas for his leaps forward in special effects. He otherwise was not terribly creative.
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Post by Warhammer Gorvar on Jan 15, 2013 12:09:29 GMT 1
I do like practical effects.
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