|
Post by Mister Buch on Aug 17, 2009 13:01:59 GMT 1
Thank you, America. In return my people offer you fish and chips.
Are those really basic tenants? Are they commonly held?
|
|
|
Post by Rascarin on Aug 17, 2009 13:02:07 GMT 1
That... is not entirely accurate, Knight. *bursts through the door* Did someone mention religion?! Perhaps I can clear some of this up, me hearties. I am thrilled that there are Mormons in a country like England, because the whole concept is ENTIRELY American. The aforementioned episode of South Park is almost (almost, it's a complicated story) entirely accurate, according to my studies. Joseph Smith was told by an angel to dig around in a certain spot somewhere in New York. There, he found two gold plates which contained what would become the Book of Mormon. Additionally, he found an old shield (the significance of which, I've forgotten) and two magical seer stones (the Urim and the Thummim). It was a breastplate, and the two stones; and the stones fastened to the breastplate to become the Urim and Thummim. (An excerpt from the book itself; "Also, that there were two stones in silver bows - and these stones, fastened to a breasplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim..."Also, it was a book of plates, not just the two. That is more or less accurate, except I'm pretty sure they were written in a form of Egyptian. It's mentioned somewhere, I think, but I can't be bothered to search for it. Not quite. Harris's wife wanted to stop the translation work, and nagged Harris to ask Joseph for a part of the manuscript so she could see it. Joseph felt obliged to agree, as they HAD funded the entire endeavour so far, and eventually let Harris take a part that was referred to as the "Book of Lehi". The manuscript was then stolen, and Joseph was forbidden to re-translate Lehi's pages, because the people that had stolen the original would have alterred it and used it to claim that Joseph was not a real prophet. Instead, the gist of what was in Lehi's pages was also contained within the Book of Nephi (Nephi being Lehi's son). So, while the book of Lehi was never recovered, nothing was actually lost from the Book of Mormon. I still have never, ever heard mention of any kind of hat. I believe that is incorrect. It's not as black and white (no pun intended) as that. When Lehi and his family left Jerusalem and travelled to America, the family began feuding and split into two groups, the Nephites and the Lamanites. The Lamanites were made dark as a curse, mainly to separate the two peoples. This is not to say that all blacks are evil; of course not. As for the colour "changing back", I believe that only happened once, when a group of Lamanites became good again, and joined the Nephites. As they were one people again, they were all made the same. Later in the Book, the Lamanites eventually become more righteous than the Nephites, but they are not changed, so the suggestion that dark skin is a sign of sin is incorrect. It was a mark of the sin of the fathers (and only in this instance, not in the case of all blacks). That is correct. Physical entity yes, bumping uglies no. Yes. The "special undergarments", usually just referred to as "garments" are a sign of promises made by a person when they go through the Temple. And no, they are not magic. Yes, Mormons do practice Baptism for the Dead, but we (they) believe that it is not binding. The spirit (in heaven) may choose to accept or reject the baptism. After an uproar where some Mormons began baptising Holocaust victims, it became decided that the baptism could only be performed with permission of a family member. I feel weird jumping up to the defence of a religion that hates me. Force of habit, I guess...
|
|
|
Post by Mister Buch on Aug 17, 2009 13:43:31 GMT 1
Now that is a rebuttal.
Interesting.
|
|
|
Post by Zarsthor on Aug 17, 2009 15:08:26 GMT 1
Knight... always appearing and disappearing...
Could it possibly be that American Mormons and UK Mormons have digressed on the same religion a little to make it confusing to both?
|
|
|
Post by Rascarin on Aug 17, 2009 15:13:46 GMT 1
No; we (they) are all lead by the same leaders in Utah. We (they) are all given the same books, lessons and teachings. Also, the Church itself is in almost every country in the world, with the exception of some third world places where the missionaries are forbidden to go.
I hate to say it, but I think some of Knight's description is based on misinformation. There is a lot of rumour and speculation around Mormonism, and often it is quite incorrect (like the belief that we/they practice plural marriage. We/they don't).
|
|
|
Post by Hodster on Aug 17, 2009 15:14:58 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by Zarsthor on Aug 17, 2009 15:20:04 GMT 1
plural marriage?
|
|
|
Post by Rascarin on Aug 17, 2009 15:31:18 GMT 1
A lot of people are under the impression that Mormons practice polygamy. Quite a few times I've been asked "So... does your dad have more than one wife?"
|
|
|
Post by Zarsthor on Aug 17, 2009 15:32:57 GMT 1
Thats why I could never tell who mormons were because someone told me mormons were the people who had lots of wives and someone else just said they were crazy people that don't like electricity.
|
|
|
Post by Tillian Panthesis on Aug 17, 2009 15:58:52 GMT 1
Is there a reason why people make misinformed information on the mormons?
|
|
|
Post by Zarsthor on Aug 17, 2009 16:45:56 GMT 1
People make misinformation about everything Tilly. lol
|
|
|
Post by Tillian Panthesis on Aug 17, 2009 17:10:31 GMT 1
I suppose so...
|
|
|
Post by Knightfall on Aug 17, 2009 21:52:21 GMT 1
It's good to get some elaboration from a real Mormon. My stepmother and her side of the family are all from Salt Lake City, Utah, but none of them are too keen on the religion anymore. Didn't mean to make it seem like I was attacking Mormonism; I have a lot of respect for what it teaches about family values. It really enforces the family bond that's becoming more and more absent from most people's lives. I'm not an anti-theist crazy person...only on weekends. xD If I remember correctly, Joseph Smith began reading the tablets out of a hat after the 116 pages of the Book of Lehi were lost. The angel Moroni came down and took the Urim and the Thummim away as a result, so Smith had to use some other stone (I don't know which, everything refers to a "dark seer stone") that could only be used in the dark. The two seer stones may have been returned to him at some point, but either way he didn't use them for again for awhile, if ever. So he'd place the dark seer stone into a hat, and he'd read the words from the spiritual light that would project before him, and that eventually became the Book of Nephi, and so on. upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d7/JosephSmithTranslating.jpg (The only picture I could find of it) It's refreshing to see someone who knows a thing or two about their religion. If you believe, then knowledge is your weapon. My weapon was a dulled, plastic sword this time, but it shant happen again. xD Is there a reason why people make misinformed information on the mormons? And I think the polygamy thing came to rise because there is a passage somewhere (I don't know where, I'm not a doctor) that claims that some Mormons can have "plural marriages." I assume this was contested or it was just never put in the book in the first place. There can be all sorts of misconceptions that stem from the time periods of various religious texts. For example, did you know the Holy Bible condones slavery? The more you know.
|
|
|
Post by Zarsthor on Aug 17, 2009 22:00:19 GMT 1
Knight you're seriously become like some mystical force. I find myself in awe every time you make an appearance. lol Maybe a religion should be started around you and your mega posts (that do not make up for the lack of them). lol
|
|
|
Post by Rascarin on Aug 17, 2009 22:11:58 GMT 1
*searches for reference to the hat*
Huh, well, you learn something new every day. I always assumed the Urim and Thummim were like glasses. I'd never heard this before;
“Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine. A piece of something resembling parchment would appear, and on that appeared the writing. One character at a time would appear, and under it was the interpretation in English. Brother Joseph would read off the English to Oliver Cowdery, who was his principal scribe, and when it was written down and repeated to Brother Joseph to see if it was correct, then it would disappear, and another character with the interpretation would appear. Thus the Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God, and not by any power of man.”
I found that on the official Church website (as said by David Whitmer, one of the Three Witnesses). I'm surprised I didn't know that.
|
|