|
Post by CAPT Issac R. Madden on Nov 16, 2012 2:02:11 GMT 1
Buch, you're more of a romantic than I am. That's been proven many times over. However, a prostitute who is addicted to crack cocaine and is an AIDS carrier claiming such status doesn't matter because she loves someone isn't what most would call "romantic".
|
|
|
Post by Mister Buch on Nov 16, 2012 2:06:09 GMT 1
You're a fascinating man.
Actually I would call that the very definition of romantic thinking.
|
|
|
Post by jklinders on Nov 16, 2012 2:11:27 GMT 1
Stripper not prostitute. There is a difference. Roger had AIDS as well so there was no harm to be had with them being with each other.
The Bohemian culture angle got a bit on my nerves mostly because I can't accept the whole freeloader approach they all wanted to take but I set all that aside as the show was simply about a year in the life of a group of friends. That was the focus of the show. The gentrification of Manhattan and AIDS and whatnot were simply the backdrop of their lives.
I wouldn't choose their life but it is not my life to choose.
|
|
|
Post by Mister Buch on Nov 16, 2012 2:13:11 GMT 1
A WORLD of difference. For crying out loud.
|
|
|
Post by jklinders on Nov 16, 2012 2:14:12 GMT 1
A WORLD of difference. For crying out loud. Clarify please?
|
|
|
Post by Mister Buch on Nov 16, 2012 2:16:39 GMT 1
Between a stripper and a prostitute. It annoyed me that Iron either mistook one for another or implied they were one in the same.
|
|
|
Post by jklinders on Nov 16, 2012 2:18:04 GMT 1
OK
*Throws out yet another sarcasm detector*
Damn things are dropping like flies, the last 2 were giving me no readings this one gave me a false positive.
|
|
|
Post by Mister Buch on Nov 16, 2012 2:19:23 GMT 1
No that one was my fault. Very unclear.
|
|
|
Post by jklinders on Nov 16, 2012 2:21:58 GMT 1
Fair warning, wall o' text incoming from the flower patch...
|
|
|
Post by Lily Ariel Linders on Nov 16, 2012 2:23:12 GMT 1
At the risk of taking heat... RENT is annoying as hell to me. Seems the premise is "I'm a crack whore with AIDS, but that doesn't matter because I LOOOOVE you...". Completely missing the point. Completely. Mimi was not a prostitute - where exactly in the story / musical / any song at all in RENT did it say she was a prostitute? An Exotic Dancer does not necessarily a prostitute make. So "crack whore" is an error. She dated Benny before the events of the story we are told, and is completely faithful to Roger throughout the play - until he dumps her, then she stays single and enters rehab for her addiction. Yes, she is addicted to heroin, and she has AIDS, but she tries to kick the addiction once she realizes that Roger is very much anti-drugs, and she only starts dating him after she realizes he also has AIDS and therefore she cannot hurt him. Also, the show is not all focused on Mimi herself, but on the group as a whole, and how the bonds of friendship can outlast anything, and how love can conquer all - look at the characters of Collins and Angel, for instance? And Joanne and Maureen? Collins and Angel were intensely devoted to each other and would have been together until the end of time had tragedy not struck the way it did... and Joanne and Maureen had their issues but they stuck together to the end. And Mimi's near-death experience was due to illness caused (partly) by her disease, but worsened by the withdrawal from the heroin (she'd entered rehab, and when she fled rehab, she did not start using again) and exposure from living on the streets in December in NYC. Also, on a more real-life note, the writer / composer of RENT was a young man who had a lot of friends who were artists and quite a few of them were HIV-positive / had AIDS - it was a deeply personal story for him, based partly on his and his friends' lives, and he wrote the play partly in honour of his friends who were dying around him... and he died himself the night before Opening Night, of a different disease (Marfan Syndrome, to be precise). So calling it an annoying play whose premise is "I'm a crack whore with AIDS but that doesn't matter because i loooooove you" is a rude simplification that is patently untrue. I apologise for being so wordy here, but I am rather passionate about RENT and I find it hurtful to hear such things (untrue things) said about it.
|
|
|
Post by CAPT Issac R. Madden on Nov 16, 2012 2:33:18 GMT 1
Sorry. I have a secondary dislike for RENT than just the plot.
My ex (who was a complete BITCH who spread rumours that I was beating her and stole money from my mother and sister, and was cheating on me), loved RENT and spammed it on my DVD player. So I have a strong dislike for anything that reminds me of her.
As I said, though, I know personally several artists who don't resort to drugs so I feel that those who use drugs show a weakness of character. This is just my opinoin, but that's what it is.
|
|
|
Post by Lily Ariel Linders on Nov 16, 2012 2:48:18 GMT 1
I understand that anything that reminds you of your ex can be a touchy subject - I myself have nightmares whenever something reminds me of a certain man in my past who shall remain unidentified for his own safety.
But still, over-simplifying on a musical and making false or judgemental statements about the story based on a misconception about one single character is a bit much, don't you think?
Also, the story was not just focused on artists. Mimi was an Exotic Dancer, which is still a real job, which earned her money, even if you disapprove of the job. Mark was a filmmaker who got a job with a TV Station shortly after the story started. Collins was a professor at NYU. Joanne was a lawyer. A rather successful one, might I add - and her family was implied to be loaded. Benny was a landlord, making quite a bit of money. Mimi was the only drug addict among the main cast, and anyone can become addicted to drugs through unfortunate circumstances in their lives - I think it shows strength of character for Mimi that she tried so hard to get off the drugs; I'm not sure how it was shown on stage (it's been a long time since I watched that DVD) but in the movie, she made one small setback when she bought one small baggie from her former dealer, but one look from Roger, and she throws it down and walks away without it. I myself have never taken addictive drugs of any kind (I even have a hard time taking Advil for headaches and won't touch pills unless the headache is crushing) so I really don't know from experience, but from what was shown in the movie version, the withdrawal symptoms are terrifying and seem to be crippling. So for people who are addicted, it can seem easier to just give in and keep using to avoid the withdrawal pains. Mimi, however, was willing to suffer those horrifying symptoms to get off the drugs. I don't know, somehow that strikes me as being a strength, not a weakness.
|
|
|
Post by Mister Buch on Nov 16, 2012 2:56:55 GMT 1
I don't want to put words into peope's mouths, but I think what Iron is saying is that he doesn't sympathise with a character who abuses drugs or chooses a disreputable profession.
I mean I disagree utterly, as always, but I think that's the man's point.
|
|
|
Post by Lily Ariel Linders on Nov 16, 2012 3:04:12 GMT 1
I understand that that is what he is saying. What I was saying though is that judging the whole play based on one single character's choices seems a little bit over-simplifying. Why not try looking at the story as a whole, and the message of unconditional love and acceptance that it speaks of?
|
|
|
Post by Mister Buch on Nov 16, 2012 3:05:56 GMT 1
I hear that. Sorry for patronising.
|
|