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Post by Cali on Nov 17, 2011 1:56:31 GMT 1
frankmillerink.com/2011/11/anarchyIn a "too long didn't read" rendition, Frank Miller basically says that the Occupy Wall Street movement is comprised of homeless hipsters who refuse to get a job or join the army. Near his closing statements, he rambles on about how OWS aren't aware that we are at war with a dangerous enemy (Muslims) and that it's spreading dissension. He's been getting a ton of negative comments and hate mail. But these are people who apparently never really paid attention to the conspicuous messages he clearly made in his comics.
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Post by Knightfall on Nov 17, 2011 2:21:04 GMT 1
Oh, boy. It's easy for people who have it all to sit back and take what's going on with OWS the wrong way, and it's hard to show people who have Hollywood films based on their work the corporate and bureaucratic goings on that have taken blatant, direct swipes at the middle class. He might as well be living in another country, because he can't see it, or won't see it. His whole rant just shows his ignorance - and it'll probably lose him a few fans in the process, because I guarantee that most of the people who buy his work aren't at his pay grade.
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Post by Cali on Nov 17, 2011 3:06:51 GMT 1
I still think that my affinity for anybody's artistic creations shouldn't be affected by his political or religious beliefs unless he or she shoves it in your face.
In any case, I don't think Frank is that wealthy. Being a comic book writer doesn't seem to pay like a Sultan. I'm not sure if the royalties he got from Sin City and 300 were enough for him to buy jewel encrusted shark tanks either.
Needless to say, he does seem like a very unreasonable person due to his blatant islamophobia and utter contempt for anybody who doesn't toe the line with Ronald Reagan's economic philosophies.
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Post by CAPT Issac R. Madden on Nov 17, 2011 3:17:51 GMT 1
From what I've seen of the OWS movement (more than that video I posed a few weeks ago), I'd say Miller is close to the mark. A LOT of them are just there to start shit. They also have had a bunch of assaults, thievery, rapes, disease, etc. at their "peaceful" camps. Also, they've been trying to freeload off of the local businesses, flat out demanding to be fed for free, among other things.
My biggest issue with the actual protesters is they want a larger governent to control big business. It's big government getting involved with big business that caused bullshit like the bailouts. Curently, the richest part of the USA is Washington DC; nearly every politician there is a millioinaire. Some are close to being billionaires. I seriously doubt that they're going to pass legislation that will force them to actually pay taxes.
Finally, there was this series of countries that had nigh draconian control of their businesses/economy. A little place known as the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. History shows how well THAT turned out...
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Post by Knightfall on Nov 17, 2011 4:39:31 GMT 1
Agreed! OWS aren't collectively the straightest of shooters, but their general message (when it gets through) is something I can agree with. I'd rather it not be the role of government to regulate big business and, by extension, the economy; I'd like it if the free market was allowed to do its job. We gave big business the freedom to essentially gamble on everything, make themselves rich by working through loopholes that never closed.
Honestly, when the banks started to collapse, that should've been the end of it. There would've been a mess, but their going under was the free market kneecapping them. I'd rather companies like BP pay taxes instead of getting billion dollar handouts come tax season. I dunno. >.<
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Post by Warhammer Gorvar on Nov 17, 2011 13:48:45 GMT 1
I'm going to get flogged on this.....but here goes.
The goverment needs to get involved or at least pay attention to it, or else we're having a repeat of the Wall Street crash. Free market doesn't work because folks are to damn greedy. I do believe the rich need to be taxed more, because they have the money and i think if you made it to the top you better help the guys down below as well.
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Post by jklinders on Nov 17, 2011 16:16:20 GMT 1
Honestly, I've shot my load on this on the pet hates thread a couple times already. Regulation or lack thereof is not the issue. The issue is a bunch of self satisfied, selfish, entitled twerps who are going around thinking that money can just appear out of thin air. That's where the loan bubble came from, that where the bank collapses came from.
If the US does not move back to a production based economy then this is just going to repeat itself over and over again. I got no, or at least little beef with corporations that actually produce something. That was the strawman that Whittle put up in that video. The problem is with the "investment banks" that do nothing but move money around and pretend they are producing something. But they are just using skeezy shell games to manipulate stock and inflate them and then put the companies into chaos when they suddenly sell off at a profit. I'm not saying do away with investment, but this idiotic artificial manipulation of stock prices is where the problem is coming from. Combined with moving production jobs away from your home market has slaughtered the middle class.
I feel that is the message that is increasingly getting lost on both sides of the argument. It needs to be listened to or there is going to be a new class war and it may not go as well for the higher ups as they think this time.
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Post by Warhammer Gorvar on Nov 17, 2011 16:27:14 GMT 1
I think I read some military dudes joined up with some of those Occupy guys.
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Post by jklinders on Nov 17, 2011 16:38:10 GMT 1
Not enough to be dangerous yet.
You send enough folks into bullshit wars for long enough and they will start to get pissed over it though.
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Post by Warhammer Gorvar on Nov 17, 2011 17:28:56 GMT 1
Vietnam and all that. Anyone else feeling a deja vu vibe here?
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Post by jklinders on Nov 17, 2011 17:54:08 GMT 1
Well, Vietnam was a slightly different kettle of fish. While it can be argued that the US should not have been there, it was definitely a politically motivated conflict fueled by the cold war.
If the conspiracies are true then the modern ones are motivated more by greed. Acquisition and control over oil reserves and keeping the military industrial complex of the US well fed. I really don't think this is a good forum to speculate on it and I really can't say how much validity it has. Politics has it's place in these conflict too, but the morality is definitely more muddy now than then.
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Post by CAPT Issac R. Madden on Nov 17, 2011 23:14:29 GMT 1
I think I read some military dudes joined up with some of those Occupy guys. Many of whom were dishonourably discharged for multiple drug-related offenses, among other things. What really gets me is the majority of them are ignorant of some facts. Such as how we haven't been on the gold standard for decades and that the Federal Reserve basically picks and chooses their stats when talking about inflation and economic growth (i.e. flat-out lies).
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Post by CAPT Issac R. Madden on Nov 18, 2011 1:19:57 GMT 1
Regarding Vietnam: the official reason we got involved is because we saw what had happened when Hitler went unchecked. Since the Communist Regimes were actually even more murderous than the Nazis, we felt the obligation to try to hold them back. Again this is the "official" position. Take it for what it's worth.
Regarding A-stan/Iraq...
Afghanistan has a shit-ton of strategic mineral resources: iron, nickel, etc. While we initially went in to kick the Taliban's ass, we remained because we wanted a government that would be willing to do business with us and trade their resources with us. At least that's how I understand it.
Iraq is a similar subject, we want them to trade oil to us. Plus Sadaam was acting like he had WMDs (Sarin nerve gas in particular) and at the time of the invasion, we had no intelligence to the contrary. On top of that, he had a history of using said WMDs. It's like having a crazy neighbor who stabbed someone in the past, got imprisoned for it, got out, and acted like he had a knife again. And before you say there was no evidence that he had them, by the time coalition forces got to the actual areas that were known to have been used for storage in the past, the Iraqi Republican Guard had more than enough time to destroy their stockpiles.
This is just my assessment of each situation, so you can take it for what it's worth.
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Post by CAPT Issac R. Madden on Nov 18, 2011 2:54:28 GMT 1
I'm going to get flogged on this.....but here goes. The goverment needs to get involved or at least pay attention to it, or else we're having a repeat of the Wall Street crash. Free market doesn't work because folks are to damn greedy. I do believe the rich need to be taxed more, because they have the money and i think if you made it to the top you better help the guys down below as well. Bad idea, taxing the rich more. Many honest business owners (yes, they do exist) pay around 50% for their taxes when all is said and done. Tax them more, and they'll just say "fuck it" and shut down when they make X amount of dollars, or move off shore since the tariffs on imports would be cheaper than doing business in the US. I have never once gotten a paying job from someone who is poor. Also, right now the number of people who actually pay taxes (as in their "refund" is less than they paid in) is less than 50% according to many reports and a significant number of people get MORE for their refund than they paid in. It's rediculous. In my estimation, the ideal course of action would be to lower the percentage tax rate to something that isn't batshit insane and eliminate all loopholes while cutting on entitlement spending (which is where the majority of the money is going; some 30-40+% IIRC, compared to the defense budget they want to slash which is less than 5%.). This would increase overall revenue and start us getting the hell out of debt. Lastly, here's a fun fact for those of you across the pond. According to many of the protestors," Europeans enjoy paying taxes and routinely ask to be taxed more because [you're] such good citizens."
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Post by CAPT Issac R. Madden on Nov 18, 2011 3:00:51 GMT 1
Now to clarify my being against government getting involved with business. I'm not saying the government shouldn't stop shit like child labor and over all enforce the laws of the land. What I AM saying is government intervention should be a last resort and should be carefully monitored lest the system gets rigged and shit like Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and others show up.
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